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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The chair of SEEN is being sued.

1000 replies

PriOn1 · 19/03/2024 18:07

We can’t post Crowdfunder links here, but there is now a Crowdfunder entitled “Chair of SEEN sued for saying 'only women menstruate'by Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley”

Text from website:

Who are you?
I'm Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley. I work for an arms-length body to a government department (part of the Civil Service) and love my job. I'm also gender critical, and chair of a governmental department SEEN (Sex Equality and Equity Network). SEEN represents those who are gender critical in our workplace.
What can you tell us?
The way I describe the case is restrained by my situation. I am writing this in a personal capacity, but am still employed and must comply with my employer's code of conduct and the Nolan Principles of Public Life. This places certain restrictions on me.
I’ve given as much information as I can, but I hope that what I set out below is sufficient to understand what’s going on.
So what happened?
I work for an arms-length body to the main government department. The case has been brought by a claimant who is an employee of another arms-length body. The claimant is taking their own employer, the government department and me to court.
Among other matters, the claimant is suing the government department for allowing our departmental SEEN network to exist (on the basis that the existence of the network has the effect of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating and/or offensive environment for the claimant).
What is the SEEN network?
SEEN (the Sex Equality and Equity Network) is an official cross-governmental staff network. We also have networks in three government departments (including the one being taken to court). SEEN is known as the gender critical network and is the only civil service network that clearly treats sex and sexual orientation as concepts defined in the Equality Act, which should never be conflated with or replaced by ‘gender identity’.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
58
MarieDeGournay · 10/06/2026 12:19

Tallisker · 10/06/2026 12:14

I really want one of those badges to wear to court while I watch. I might get beaten up for it though by the complainant’s supporters. Ho hum. Another little old lady being threatened by TRAs might be welcome sunlight. I might wear my terf island badge too. And my veterans badge to warn them I’m a trained killer 🤣

Thank you Tallisker, that's good to know; the GC movement needs all the trained killers it can get, in case being reasonable and conspicuously law abiding doesn't work out for us😁

Tallisker · 10/06/2026 12:23

@MarieDeGournay🤣

SqueakyDinosaur · 10/06/2026 12:37

Maybe we need a database of all our skills - trained killer, super sweary (me,definitely), online arguer, letter writer, etc...

Chersfrozenface · 10/06/2026 12:48

Will Jane Russell be bringing her support/getaway horse, I wonder.

Tallisker · 10/06/2026 13:23

SqueakyDinosaur · 10/06/2026 12:37

Maybe we need a database of all our skills - trained killer, super sweary (me,definitely), online arguer, letter writer, etc...

@Boiledbeetleshould deffo be on that list for summat, as should Fifer Bez

thirdfiddle · 10/06/2026 14:50

MarieDeGournay · 10/06/2026 12:19

Thank you Tallisker, that's good to know; the GC movement needs all the trained killers it can get, in case being reasonable and conspicuously law abiding doesn't work out for us😁

Edited

Don't joke, there are people bereft of sense of humour reading. Stick to trained battenburg throwers or something they can't misinterpret.

anyolddinosaur · 10/06/2026 15:18

We have a good few Cassandras, poets, artists, cooks - I guess a few of those might be handy with a knife but they seem more interested in cake.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 10/06/2026 15:31

I’ve emailed Leeds ET to ask whether this case will be made available for online observation, no reply as yet.

MarieDeGournay · 10/06/2026 15:40

thirdfiddle · 10/06/2026 14:50

Don't joke, there are people bereft of sense of humour reading. Stick to trained battenburg throwers or something they can't misinterpret.

D'you know, that thought actually crossed my mind as I wrote it🙁
In the interests of clarity, I of course meant 'killing with kindness'😏

terffert · 10/06/2026 18:23

The list of tribunal cases for Leeds from 22nd June ("press list") is now out at courtserve.net - but there's nothing on it that could be this case as far as I can see. There is a case at Leeds Westgate on 22 June 2026 at 10:00, number 1802467/2024, with its claimant and respondant given as "Order made pursuant to Rule 49". Rule 49 of the Employment Tribunal Procedure Rules 2024 is the one that allows cases to be held in private, in anonymised form, etc. So maybe, even though one request for anonymity failed if I understand correctly, this case is being held in private? However TT does have a page for it. If I'm failing to understand something and someone else can find more information, do share...

ETA yes, that case number also appears on the preliminary decision from last year, here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6940286e33c7ace9c4a421da/1802467.24___2502512.23_Judgement.pdf

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 10/06/2026 18:43

terffert · 10/06/2026 18:23

The list of tribunal cases for Leeds from 22nd June ("press list") is now out at courtserve.net - but there's nothing on it that could be this case as far as I can see. There is a case at Leeds Westgate on 22 June 2026 at 10:00, number 1802467/2024, with its claimant and respondant given as "Order made pursuant to Rule 49". Rule 49 of the Employment Tribunal Procedure Rules 2024 is the one that allows cases to be held in private, in anonymised form, etc. So maybe, even though one request for anonymity failed if I understand correctly, this case is being held in private? However TT does have a page for it. If I'm failing to understand something and someone else can find more information, do share...

ETA yes, that case number also appears on the preliminary decision from last year, here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6940286e33c7ace9c4a421da/1802467.24___2502512.23_Judgement.pdf

Edited

Yes, that’s the number I used along with the respondents as listed in that document.

if there’s no online access I hope in person observation is still allowed.

CriticalCondition · 10/06/2026 19:10

Donated.

I do hope online access is available. It's listed for 4 weeks. Watching Naomi and, I hope, the excellent Charlotte Elves kick the other side into touch is my 'first best option' for how to spend screen time for a month.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 10/06/2026 19:19

Wonder if Nick Wallis will be covering this one at all.

Boiledbeetle · 10/06/2026 19:22

Tallisker · 10/06/2026 13:23

@Boiledbeetleshould deffo be on that list for summat, as should Fifer Bez

I am skilled in a) raising one eyebrow to a ridiculous height b) sarcasm and c) saying

"Oh fuck off"

in bigly letters

AlexandraLeaving · 11/06/2026 06:37

Boiledbeetle · 10/06/2026 19:22

I am skilled in a) raising one eyebrow to a ridiculous height b) sarcasm and c) saying

"Oh fuck off"

in bigly letters

Also, Maud the Gerbil rates you highly as her PA.

Boiledbeetle · 11/06/2026 06:48

AlexandraLeaving · 11/06/2026 06:37

Also, Maud the Gerbil rates you highly as her PA.

I suspect that's because I agreed to work as her unpaid intern!

anyolddinosaur · 11/06/2026 09:34

Probably listed for 4 weeks partly because it was originally 2 cases combined - a good part of the case against Andreas was thrown out for having no realistic prospect of success. You'd think more could have been thrown out. Also it has Jane Russell KC, noted for her time wasting elsewhere.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2026 10:06

Isn’t Jane supposedly on the side of the respondent in this one? As I’ve pointed out before, her bio on her chambers pretty much credits her with the Forstater decision 😂

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 11/06/2026 10:11

I’ve not had any response from Leeds ET (yet). I found other ET much more responsive (Edinburgh, Watford, Darlington). I didn’t even get an automatic “thanks for your email, we’ll get back to you” acknowledgment. I used the details on their website https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/courts/leeds-employment-tribunal so am presuming they are up to date.

anyolddinosaur · 11/06/2026 10:37

Jane is supposedly on the side of the employers, not necessarily the same thing. It will be interesting to see how she defends their decision and if it's all oh look we had to do it. I have zero confidence in JR but Naomi is there too.

biddyboo · 11/06/2026 11:16

anyolddinosaur · 11/06/2026 10:37

Jane is supposedly on the side of the employers, not necessarily the same thing. It will be interesting to see how she defends their decision and if it's all oh look we had to do it. I have zero confidence in JR but Naomi is there too.

Jane Russell is acting for Rural Payments Agency and Defra? I know she was acting for the Environment Agency, but the Andreas Mueller case has been settled. Robin Moira White is acting for Samantha Tempest 🍿

Iamnotalemming · 11/06/2026 11:18

If JR is for the employer and NC is for Elspeth, it will be fascinating to see how that plays out in submissions. Will JR's argument be "the employer is lovely kind and inclusive but cannot legally prevent that horrid SEEN network from existing".

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2026 11:26

I’ve no idea, I only vaguely remember she’s involved! I may be confusing it with the earlier settled case.

biddyboo · 11/06/2026 11:33

Iamnotalemming · 11/06/2026 11:18

If JR is for the employer and NC is for Elspeth, it will be fascinating to see how that plays out in submissions. Will JR's argument be "the employer is lovely kind and inclusive but cannot legally prevent that horrid SEEN network from existing".

The claims against Elspeth were thrown out, but SEEN applied as an interested party, and Elspeth is giving evidence. That is my understanding anyway. This case seems quite complex!

It will be strange to see Jane Russell arguing that GC views are WORIADS.

Iamnotalemming · 11/06/2026 11:57

Ah, thanks @biddyboo

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