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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The chair of SEEN is being sued.

455 replies

PriOn1 · 19/03/2024 18:07

We can’t post Crowdfunder links here, but there is now a Crowdfunder entitled “Chair of SEEN sued for saying 'only women menstruate'by Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley”

Text from website:

Who are you?
I'm Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley. I work for an arms-length body to a government department (part of the Civil Service) and love my job. I'm also gender critical, and chair of a governmental department SEEN (Sex Equality and Equity Network). SEEN represents those who are gender critical in our workplace.
What can you tell us?
The way I describe the case is restrained by my situation. I am writing this in a personal capacity, but am still employed and must comply with my employer's code of conduct and the Nolan Principles of Public Life. This places certain restrictions on me.
I’ve given as much information as I can, but I hope that what I set out below is sufficient to understand what’s going on.
So what happened?
I work for an arms-length body to the main government department. The case has been brought by a claimant who is an employee of another arms-length body. The claimant is taking their own employer, the government department and me to court.
Among other matters, the claimant is suing the government department for allowing our departmental SEEN network to exist (on the basis that the existence of the network has the effect of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating and/or offensive environment for the claimant).
What is the SEEN network?
SEEN (the Sex Equality and Equity Network) is an official cross-governmental staff network. We also have networks in three government departments (including the one being taken to court). SEEN is known as the gender critical network and is the only civil service network that clearly treats sex and sexual orientation as concepts defined in the Equality Act, which should never be conflated with or replaced by ‘gender identity’.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/03/2024 13:58

That's good to hear. Weren't the powerful civil service influencer group a:gender in a right flap that one of their members was saying all the quiet bits out loud? Showcasing the intimidatory tactics used to silence women civil servants with the case against Elspeth?
They put out contradictory statements in an attempt to distance themselves from the case - while one of the organisations (maybe Sex Matters?) evidenced them previously saying precisely what they were now denying?

titchy · 25/03/2024 14:00

I wonder if they looked at her crowd finder and went 'Oh shit, she can afford Ben AND the support wren'.... Grin

Froodwithatowel · 25/03/2024 14:04

It should not be that someone can initiate all this and then walk away. Causing someone this stress on a frivolous basis should be something they are held responsible for. I mean if breathing upsetting someone by stating a bit of reality they dislike is now a hate crime, then this bloody well ought to be.

Iamnotalemming · 25/03/2024 14:07

Excellent news and good on Elspeth for seeking to remain an interested party.

HeartofSaturdayNight · 25/03/2024 14:07

Froodwithatowel · 25/03/2024 14:04

It should not be that someone can initiate all this and then walk away. Causing someone this stress on a frivolous basis should be something they are held responsible for. I mean if breathing upsetting someone by stating a bit of reality they dislike is now a hate crime, then this bloody well ought to be.

Absolutely this.

SidewaysOtter · 25/03/2024 14:47

Excellent news for Elspeth and all power to her elbow that she wants to remain an interested party.

I completely agree that those who bring these cases should be held to account for the harm their accusations cause.

Apollo441 · 25/03/2024 15:04

So they are not pursuing the complaint but they still want specific punishments enacted against SEEN? Have I got that right?

ResisterRex · 25/03/2024 15:09

Apollo441 · 25/03/2024 15:04

So they are not pursuing the complaint but they still want specific punishments enacted against SEEN? Have I got that right?

That's how it seems to be left.

LoobiJee · 25/03/2024 15:15

Apollo441 · 25/03/2024 15:04

So they are not pursuing the complaint but they still want specific punishments enacted against SEEN? Have I got that right?

They are still pursuing their complaint against their employer / the civil service for allowing SEEN to exist but have removed Elspeth’s name from their complaint. If I’ve understood the crowd funder update correctly.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 25/03/2024 16:15

Would it be possible for Elspeth to raise her own complaint about a hostile and degrading work environment? Go on the offensive?

Or is it a case of having to be “nice” and gracious because someone has taken their foot off your hand?

crunchermuncher · 26/03/2024 11:47

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 25/03/2024 16:15

Would it be possible for Elspeth to raise her own complaint about a hostile and degrading work environment? Go on the offensive?

Or is it a case of having to be “nice” and gracious because someone has taken their foot off your hand?

I imagine it's probably such a stressful thing to do that most sane people wouldn't want to take it on.

It's so upsetting that she's been put through such a vexatious complaint for the last 4 months. All power to her for wanting to still be involved 💐

Propertylover · 26/03/2024 15:17

@MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving there is an element of being gracious and rising above it.

However, Elspeth is seeking to remain an interested party and that could be important when the case reaches ET. She may well be called a witness for SEEN.

SinnerBoy · 26/03/2024 15:25

LoobiJee · Yesterday 15:15

They are still pursuing their complaint against their employer / the civil service for allowing SEEN to exist but have removed Elspeth’s name from their complaint. If I’ve understood the crowd funder update correctly.

That's absolutely diabolical! I don't really see how they can have a case, when they've just conceded against Elspeth. They surely cannot win? WORIADS and all that.

HagoftheNorth · 26/03/2024 15:49

Froodwithatowel · 25/03/2024 14:04

It should not be that someone can initiate all this and then walk away. Causing someone this stress on a frivolous basis should be something they are held responsible for. I mean if breathing upsetting someone by stating a bit of reality they dislike is now a hate crime, then this bloody well ought to be.

I agree with this. I do understand that it would be stressful to take on, but I would love to see some legal recompense for the harm the complainant has deliberately caused

PriOn1 · 26/03/2024 19:11

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 25/03/2024 16:15

Would it be possible for Elspeth to raise her own complaint about a hostile and degrading work environment? Go on the offensive?

Or is it a case of having to be “nice” and gracious because someone has taken their foot off your hand?

I think this might be the wrong time. Currently she is effectively on the same side as the civil service bodies that are being taken to court. The claim is so incredibly outrageous that I think a lot of eyes will be opened, perhaps within the civil service itself.

Don’t interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake.

OP posts:
MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 26/03/2024 19:39

Fair enough. It’s easy to forget that so many people are not aware of the issues and other tribunal cases. Hopefully it will bring lots of sunlight to what’s happening in some civil service bodies

SinnerBoy · 27/03/2024 08:54

It was reported yesterday that the claimant had dropped the case against Elspeth, but that the case against DEFRA and its SEEN network was ongoing.

SqueakyDinosaur · 27/03/2024 10:28

There does seem to be some very poor legal advice on the Right Side of History. I guess if you're a true believer then it's inconvenient to see that both sides have rights, but the corpus of tribunal judgments that is building up should surely give pause for thought?

Needmoresleep · 27/03/2024 10:32

Yes. Things are changing. A year or so ago the bundle person would have turned up to "man"splain the law and why the wimmin were wrong.

BezMills · 27/03/2024 20:14

Yeah haven't seen bundles commenting on this one

SidewaysOtter · 27/03/2024 20:50

Iguess if you're a true believer then it's inconvenient to see that both sides have rights, but the corpus of tribunal judgments that is building up should surely give pause for thought?

I suspect the law is transphobic, product of an evil Tory government, yadda yadda. Hence the brave fight to try and save us all from fascism or erasure or whatever it is today.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 27/03/2024 21:55

SidewaysOtter · 27/03/2024 20:50

Iguess if you're a true believer then it's inconvenient to see that both sides have rights, but the corpus of tribunal judgments that is building up should surely give pause for thought?

I suspect the law is transphobic, product of an evil Tory government, yadda yadda. Hence the brave fight to try and save us all from fascism or erasure or whatever it is today.

EA2010 was introduced by a Labour Govt, passed by a Labour-majority Parliament, and received Royal Assent under a Labour Govt.

SidewaysOtter · 27/03/2024 22:03

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 27/03/2024 21:55

EA2010 was introduced by a Labour Govt, passed by a Labour-majority Parliament, and received Royal Assent under a Labour Govt.

Well I know that and you know that but the TRA brigade are always wanging on about Tories as if it’s the ultimate insult!

duc748 · 27/03/2024 23:26

I thought the same, but I think @SidewaysOtter is right; they don't let facts get in the way...

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