Jon Ronson and Adam Buxton

[WarriorN]

I'm astounded at this "bonus episode" of "and things fell apart."

Absolutely everything Glinner has said has been proven.

This is a twitter link, I imagine it's on bbc sounds

x.com/glinner/status/1769152705333699000?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Fwiw it seems that Ronson has removed the post about this episode, where he was ratiod, from his feed

You seemed to be telling us to all get of our arses and DO SOMETHING. Without realising that most of us already are.

And suggesting that shouting at people on twitter is DOING SOMETHING, more than posting on here is, is just ridiculous.

Perhaps you should have read a few of the other threads on this board before telling us all that we're not doing anything else.

Exactly this!

I’m pretty sure the women are doing things off mn it’s not just you two

I don’t know but the shouting and support does suggest they feel alone in doing things 🤔

Just read this by Ronson from 2015 and how being shamed on twitter affected him then.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2015/dec/20/social-media-twitter-online-shame

It's sort of solidified how I feel. You can ask people questions. But they aren't obligated to answer. And you can critique how they've done a job but ultimately its up to them to do that job how they see best.

These demands that JR and AB interview GL are unreasonable. As are the complaints about being blocked on twitter.

Yes, maybe they would feel better chatting with like minded people... coffee and cake optional.

Just read this by Ronson from 2015 and how being shamed on twitter affected him then.

You'd think then he would have some empathy for his friend GL going through the same, in fact much worse...but he seems to have drawn a blank, possibly because it's an uncomfortable truth he doesn't want to face.

All I can see is the hypocrisy of both JR and AB - to host a podcast about the culture wars, whilst engaging in petty behaviour towards someone who was their friend because he is on the 'other side' of a particular culture war. They don't see their own bias, yet they have positioned themselves as public intelligent thinkers about these issues.

JR literally made his career on 'so you've been publicly shamed' or something similar - yet he seems to ignore the fact that GL was publicly trashed, lost his livelihood etc., and now both of them seem to be blaming him for it - oh he should have just stayed quiet.... What a pair of arseholes.

🙄
So cliquey

The person you agreed with in this very thread has suggested doing that. Feel like backtracking yet?

If all we do is navel gaze here nothing will change. Get on their twitter accounts and shout at them

Yes why is there no empathy but just using his supposed friend for content?

It’s such an insufferable why to behave

I think if you scroll back you'll see I did respond to their first post to say shouting at people on twitter was pointless. I agreed later that posting on mumsnet can be self congratulatory echo chamber (if you are in the majority) and seeking opposing views was helpful.

I am not sure what you think I should backtrack on?

Is self congratulatory the new focus for women speaking up?

I suppose we must move on from whatever put down it used to be

Have you listened to the episode? They actually are fairly careful in what they say, you'd only know if it was GL if you are "in the know".
We have no idea about GLs behaviour towards them and how far his "requests" to be covered on the show went. His divorce suggests maybe his interest in the topic went a bit further than most people go.
I didn't think what they said was at all unreasonable,I think they were alluding to an obsessional level of behaviour on a topic rather than the topic itself. And of course for JR who's been investigating "culture war" issues its entirely possible some of what GL said rang alarm bells for him.

By creating threads and piling on on Twitter, all you are doing is continuing to inflame what is a personal falling out.

I generally just ignore ad hom posts for the most part. They are pointless and help nobody.

They also said other things if you click show quote history so I assumed you agreed with the rest of their posts in that quote.

FWIW I think places like this are an echo chamber that gives us a false idea of the prevailing mood and if we don’t have these conversations in less accepting environments as well , there’s no point.
If this was the only bit you agreed with then instead of telling the rest of us off for posting in this particular echo chamber, feel free to toddle off elsewhere to fight the good fight. We aren't stopping you (or the other poster).

I find this forum to be the least echo-y compared to other forums and anything that is different to the "echo" norm is analysed carefully before being accepted or rejected (usually by multiple posters), whether or not it's different to the views held here previously. Nothing is taken at face value. I find that refreshing and very informative, and I like sitting amongst intelligent and calm people. I don't like being near angry, demanding and ultimately closed minded people who post on the other forums (which are worse in their chamber-like properties).

By creating threads and piling on on Twitter, all you are doing is continuing to inflame what is a personal falling out.
Your last post - who here is piling on twitter? Only one person suggested it 🙄

Seeking opposing views is helpful? The media is awash with opposing views. Do you think we're unaware of them?

True

Although that’s the second time I’ve seen ‘self congratulatory’

Both since the puberty blockers were stopped, maybe seeing change is not welcomed

His divorce suggests maybe his interest in the topic went a bit further than most people go.

Nice victim blaming there. He and his family were threatened by extremists. He was hounded out of work and dropped by people he thought were his friends. Would you say that a Russian political dissident, or an Iranian woman fighting for women's rights, or an anti FGM campaigner 'went a bit further than most people go' and means it as an insult?

Yes I listened and heard them talk in a very chummy way about someone who used to be their friend, it was so smarmy. If they were having a discussion in private, so what. But they put it in their podcast, of course people were going to guess it was GL they were talking about. To think people somehow wouldn't know is disingenuous.

You are also commenting on this thread, therefore continuing the discussion - I don't see why the rest of us discussing their conversation needs your permission? Or are we women not discussing it properly?

Women did talk.

For that, they got fired, harrassed, police investigations oened, hounded out of town etc.

But the otherside SHOUTED.Loud and clear.

Who won?

Eh? I didn't mean it as an insult. I was trying to frame my opinion sensitively - but I'll be more blunt.

His behaviour on twitter and the fact his wife divorced him over this suggests he went from being a campaigner on a topic into being obsessed with it and potentially sucked into related conspiracy theories.

If that's the case many of his friends and family would find that very hard to deal with.

Jon Ronson is more familiar with that than most due to interviewing people who've been impacted by this. Listen to his episode about Q Anon.

It is very hard to know how to respond to someone who is caught up in one extreme version of the truth and won't hear or see another side. I think that's why AB said an interview would be a "zero sum game".

There are no "winners".

Women countered the self ID threat by staying calm, objective and evidence based in the face of twitter shouting. By using the law and the courts to protect our rights.

Now there's a faction shouting at the "other side" on Twitter. About as likely to "win" as the TRAs were when they did it.

Totally fruitless.

It's a discussion on a public board. I have no strong feelings either way, I'm not the one saying GL is a "victim". I'm just pointing out that if you don't like that they recorded the podcast,maybe you shouldn't be publicising it.

Wasn’t it only one poster telling women to shout on Twitter?

The one that got a smiley in agreement