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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!

976 replies

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2024 16:21

This is massive - and long overdue

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ce2e81-2884-42f5-bb82-2a2778f2cc91?shareToken=9568e79f0683beea68ffe5e978b05a29

OP posts:
Thread gallery
99
RedToothBrush · 18/03/2024 14:44

Also there's plenty of teenagers who when they age out of education are going to kick back against it.

There's a lot of them who joke amongst themselves about identifying and think it's bollocks amongst friends.

Signalbox · 18/03/2024 16:21

There were some blog pieces about her on the GenderGP site last summer, after she was inexplicably cleared by the GMC

She wasn’t cleared by the GMC. Her fitness to practise was found to be impaired (but only on one issue) and she was suspended but sadly she appealed and won. I wonder if she would get the same result now. She relied quite heavily on the fact that she had followed WPATH SoC. It’s such a travesty that she is still able to continue prescribing these drugs to children.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/03/2024 16:47

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

I do know what you mean & I am wary too but some really simple examples of what I see now. 3 years ago everyone on Twitter had pronouns in their bio as they’d been told to on all the training courses but now the only ones that do are the real die hards. Ditto pronouns in emails are reducing as is the she/her stuff on company websites. More GP surgeries have reverted back to sex rather than gender (with a little apology note as to why it matters). Many more Policies accurately quote the EA protected characteristics now. I do think the wave is receding but it will take time

NitroNine · 18/03/2024 21:17

Very Normal Responses to latest article in The Times here 🙃

No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!
RedToothBrush · 18/03/2024 21:55

Jesus what are they taking cos that's sure as shit not HRT.

Datun · 19/03/2024 09:15

TheClogLady · 18/03/2024 10:53

Clearly I should’ve checked before posting!

Webberly tweeted 3 days ago for the first time since December:

https://www.gendergp.com/message-dr-webberley-wpath/

I'll always do anything to help, as long as it involves you giving me tons of money.

Datun · 19/03/2024 09:17

TheClogLady · 18/03/2024 10:54

Here’s that blog post in full:

Dear Mums and Dads, guardians and children, teenagers and families, GPs and hospital doctors,
This is a terrifying time for trans people right now, we are facing an awful time in history where trans rights are being denied, people’s identities are being debated, attacks are being launched, medical care is being withdrawn, harmful policies are being introduced.
I understand what impact that has – this means that trans youth (and adults) do not have access to essential puberty blockers and sex hormones on the NHS. GPs and local hospitals feel scared to help you and the specialist clinic is not operating. The future feels bleak.
I want to explain to you that the current NHS view is not in line with the true specialists from across the world.
In November 2022, the World Association of Transgender Health (WPATH) made a statement regarding the proposed specification saying:
‘Overall, WPATH, ASIAPATH, EPATH, PATHA, and USPATH find serious flaws in
this document, which sets out a plan for a service for gender diverse children and young people in England that is likely to cause enormous harm and exacerbate the higher rates of suicidality experienced by these young people in the context of ongoing
pathologisation and discrimination. WPATH, ASIAPATH, EPATH, PATHA, and
USPATH urge NHS England and Wales to reconsider its approach, which is now
contrary to the progress being made in many countries around the world and incongruent with statements from the World Health Organization (2017) and the Yogyakarta Principles (2007) relating to the right to the highest attainable standard of health.’
In November 2023, WPATH and EPATH came together and said:
‘Transgender and gender diverse young people across the United Kingdom are facing a health care access crisis.’I totally agree – the new policies are deeply harmful and are denying care that has been evaluated as being safe and necessary and appropriate. Denying essential care to any young person is not acceptable and risks harm.
I urge you not to accept this approach. The NHS has a duty to provide trans children care, to prevent harm, to prevent the life-changing and stigmatising effects of undergoing a puberty that does not align with their gender identity and not being able to access the right hormone to give that child the puberty that does align with their identity.
Stand your ground, keep your head up and when a doctor denies a child the care that has been proven and evaluated to help, ask them a very simple question. ‘If you won’t provide this care, what steps will you take to make sure this child’s mental and physical health is safe, and if harm comes to this child, who will I hold responsible?’
In 2015, I founded GenderGP to help with this very problem. GenderGP will not be following the NHS guidance, it will be following International Guidelines and best practice – which means puberty blockers for transgender children when they are seeking to prevent the changes that will happen to their bodies during puberty. And it means providing gender-affirming hormones to allow that child to go through the puberty that matches their gender identity. That is what compassionate, understanding, essential care looks like and it is totally legal, appropriate and right for trans youth.
Between 2017 and 2023, as a GP, I underwent formal Fitness to Practice proceedings covering three transgender patients:
a 12 year old to whom I prescribed testosterone
a 16 year old to whom I prescribed testosterone
an 11 year old to whom I prescribed blockers
The Medical Practitioner’s; Tribunal Service determined that those prescriptions were appropriate, and necessary, and correct. I hope that this gives you the confidence to help your transgender children get the care they need.
I hear your pain, I feel your anger, and I want the best for you and for every child in this country, regardless of their colour, their age, their religion, their sex, their gender identity, their sexuality. These characteristics are protected for a very good reason.Whether you are a doctor or a parent, keep your chin up, continue to fight for that child, do not let policy harm you. Stand together and fight together, I know you are right and I will always do anything I can to help you.
With the deepest respect, Dr Helen Webberley

Jesus, as propaganda goes, that's fairly unequivocal.

Talk about ramp up demand

Datun · 19/03/2024 09:19

Signalbox · 18/03/2024 16:21

There were some blog pieces about her on the GenderGP site last summer, after she was inexplicably cleared by the GMC

She wasn’t cleared by the GMC. Her fitness to practise was found to be impaired (but only on one issue) and she was suspended but sadly she appealed and won. I wonder if she would get the same result now. She relied quite heavily on the fact that she had followed WPATH SoC. It’s such a travesty that she is still able to continue prescribing these drugs to children.

I agree. The discrediting of WPATH, should put paid to her prescribing anything to children.

I wonder how much of her income relies on middle-aged cross dressers? I bet it's the bulk of it. And that children are, as ever in this ideology, being used to sanitise AGP.

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2024 10:22

I think the impression I get from her is that she doesn't actually believe in gender identity. This is purely financial to her.

WarriorN · 19/03/2024 12:04

Look at this!

x.com/shellenberger/status/1770042611807486187?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

It feels too good to be true though….

No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!
No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!
maltravers · 19/03/2024 12:07

They’re deleting the evidence…

duc748 · 19/03/2024 12:08

maltravers · 19/03/2024 12:07

They’re deleting the evidence…

Well that's not going to fly, is it?

WitchyWitcherson · 19/03/2024 12:17

TheClogLady · 18/03/2024 10:54

Here’s that blog post in full:

Dear Mums and Dads, guardians and children, teenagers and families, GPs and hospital doctors,
This is a terrifying time for trans people right now, we are facing an awful time in history where trans rights are being denied, people’s identities are being debated, attacks are being launched, medical care is being withdrawn, harmful policies are being introduced.
I understand what impact that has – this means that trans youth (and adults) do not have access to essential puberty blockers and sex hormones on the NHS. GPs and local hospitals feel scared to help you and the specialist clinic is not operating. The future feels bleak.
I want to explain to you that the current NHS view is not in line with the true specialists from across the world.
In November 2022, the World Association of Transgender Health (WPATH) made a statement regarding the proposed specification saying:
‘Overall, WPATH, ASIAPATH, EPATH, PATHA, and USPATH find serious flaws in
this document, which sets out a plan for a service for gender diverse children and young people in England that is likely to cause enormous harm and exacerbate the higher rates of suicidality experienced by these young people in the context of ongoing
pathologisation and discrimination. WPATH, ASIAPATH, EPATH, PATHA, and
USPATH urge NHS England and Wales to reconsider its approach, which is now
contrary to the progress being made in many countries around the world and incongruent with statements from the World Health Organization (2017) and the Yogyakarta Principles (2007) relating to the right to the highest attainable standard of health.’
In November 2023, WPATH and EPATH came together and said:
‘Transgender and gender diverse young people across the United Kingdom are facing a health care access crisis.’I totally agree – the new policies are deeply harmful and are denying care that has been evaluated as being safe and necessary and appropriate. Denying essential care to any young person is not acceptable and risks harm.
I urge you not to accept this approach. The NHS has a duty to provide trans children care, to prevent harm, to prevent the life-changing and stigmatising effects of undergoing a puberty that does not align with their gender identity and not being able to access the right hormone to give that child the puberty that does align with their identity.
Stand your ground, keep your head up and when a doctor denies a child the care that has been proven and evaluated to help, ask them a very simple question. ‘If you won’t provide this care, what steps will you take to make sure this child’s mental and physical health is safe, and if harm comes to this child, who will I hold responsible?’
In 2015, I founded GenderGP to help with this very problem. GenderGP will not be following the NHS guidance, it will be following International Guidelines and best practice – which means puberty blockers for transgender children when they are seeking to prevent the changes that will happen to their bodies during puberty. And it means providing gender-affirming hormones to allow that child to go through the puberty that matches their gender identity. That is what compassionate, understanding, essential care looks like and it is totally legal, appropriate and right for trans youth.
Between 2017 and 2023, as a GP, I underwent formal Fitness to Practice proceedings covering three transgender patients:
a 12 year old to whom I prescribed testosterone
a 16 year old to whom I prescribed testosterone
an 11 year old to whom I prescribed blockers
The Medical Practitioner’s; Tribunal Service determined that those prescriptions were appropriate, and necessary, and correct. I hope that this gives you the confidence to help your transgender children get the care they need.
I hear your pain, I feel your anger, and I want the best for you and for every child in this country, regardless of their colour, their age, their religion, their sex, their gender identity, their sexuality. These characteristics are protected for a very good reason.Whether you are a doctor or a parent, keep your chin up, continue to fight for that child, do not let policy harm you. Stand together and fight together, I know you are right and I will always do anything I can to help you.
With the deepest respect, Dr Helen Webberley

Chimes with the latest videos of E. Page saying about how deathly harmful all of this is to trans people.

Death, suicide, erasure...

This language is dangerously hyperbolic, and no doubt some trans people feel terrified right now because of it, and it will be negatively affecting their mental health.

It's not death, suicide, erasure... it's implementation of safeguarding so that trans people will have better health outcomes in future. Why is wanting to help trans people to come to terms with their bodies without medical intervention akin to erasure? If a 25 year old biological female decides to cut her hair short and call herself Jim to feel better about herself, she can go for it, but she'll be better off long term with her health if she uses therapy to come to terms with her female body, even if she identifies as trans-masc! And to build resilience so that when people say "she", so it doesn't cause her distress.

Because people will use 'she' since it's not a slur like a racist word, and being a 'she' is not a bad thing to be!

WarriorN · 19/03/2024 12:28

Thread

WPATH deletes standards of Care v8" from its website! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5031649-wpath-deletes-standards-of-care-v8-from-its-website

SinnerBoy · 19/03/2024 12:37

WarriorN · Today 12:04

Look at this!

Thanks for that, perhaps the whole edifice is starting to crumble. They obviously realise that their unsupportable bullshit is, well, unsupportable.

WarriorN · 19/03/2024 12:42

🤞

maltravers · 19/03/2024 13:07

I imagine they realised the whole eunuch thing was going to be hard to sell, especially given the links with the guy who wrote it.

Propertylover · 19/03/2024 18:19

What a surprise - not, that the tweets were deleted.

I think there is a lot of deleting going on behind the scenes.

ButterflyHatched · 19/03/2024 23:07

I go on holiday for a few weeks and return to the tail end of a week of triumphalist crowing from the tabloids about having finally crushed the last few drops of hope out of any young trans person in the UK. Welcome home!

I used to be so proud of our NHS - I wouldn't hear a bad word spoken against it. Being prescribed puberty blockers a quarter of a century ago saved my life and the thought of young people today not having access to even that level of treatment is heartbreaking and galling in equal measure.

What an achievement. We have somehow managed to find a way to make things even worse than they were not only a few years ago, but all the way back to the 90's. The miniscule sliver of existing healthcare provision for children seeking treatment for gender incongruence under the NHS is now effectively non-existent outside of the hazy and uncertain realm of clinical trial arm-twisting.

Not impossible, though, thankfully - but I can't say I approve of blackmailing desperate children into consenting to be part of clinical research trials in order to gain access to an existing treatment that's been in place worldwide for several generations already.

What a time to be alive. I can only hope that sense and compassion prevails once this extinction burst finally melts away.

ILikeDungs · 19/03/2024 23:28

Was that you telling us you are FOR the Eunuch thing, Butterfly? And the SoC 8? Or just untested drugs for minors.

Yes indeed. What a time to be alive.

SinnerBoy · 19/03/2024 23:35

Used for generations, you say? A generation is 30 years, are you REALLY claiming that puberty blockers have been used on confused children since 1934 at least?

ButterflyHatched · 20/03/2024 00:10

SinnerBoy · 19/03/2024 23:35

Used for generations, you say? A generation is 30 years, are you REALLY claiming that puberty blockers have been used on confused children since 1934 at least?

I'm late Gen-X/Early Millennial. The youngest Gen Z ('Zoomers') are about to age out of eligibility for adolescent gender services, and Generation Alpha is the group that this ruling is going to directly and catastrophically affect. Try again.

ButterflyHatched · 20/03/2024 00:13

ILikeDungs · 19/03/2024 23:28

Was that you telling us you are FOR the Eunuch thing, Butterfly? And the SoC 8? Or just untested drugs for minors.

Yes indeed. What a time to be alive.

I'm in favour of there continuing to be a provision by the NHS for children in the same situation I was in a quarter of a century ago to be able to access the same treatment I was able to which had a profound and resounding lifelong positive effect.

Boiledbeetle · 20/03/2024 00:21

ButterflyHatched · 20/03/2024 00:13

I'm in favour of there continuing to be a provision by the NHS for children in the same situation I was in a quarter of a century ago to be able to access the same treatment I was able to which had a profound and resounding lifelong positive effect.

Well, the NHS now disagrees with you and is no longer in favour of giving children drugs that can cause serious issues. You may have had a positive experience but many don't.

And if you were on them 25 years ago via the NHS I'm shocked that the statistical data still isn't there which means any children now getting them from scratch will have to be in a clinical trial. That's very remiss of the NHS to have been prescribing these for so many years with no empirical data to back their prescribing up.

Hope you had a nice holiday

NotBadConsidering · 20/03/2024 01:11

ButterflyHatched · 20/03/2024 00:13

I'm in favour of there continuing to be a provision by the NHS for children in the same situation I was in a quarter of a century ago to be able to access the same treatment I was able to which had a profound and resounding lifelong positive effect.

Apart from the lifelong health implications you described as the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head, you mean?

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