CNN equates opposition to genderism with opposition to gender equality

[NotTerfNorCis]

My head is spinning after reading this article: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/asequals/anti-gender-equality-threat-explained-as-equals-intl-cmd/ Apparently the 'anti-gender or anti-rights movement' movement 'mobilises opposition to “gender ideology,” “gender theory” or “genderism.”' It goes on to say: 'While their exact targets and arguments vary, proponents of anti-gender ideology generally agree that the concept of ‘gender’ is dangerous because it is changing the way our societies are structured. They view “traditional” social units – such as the male-headed nuclear family of a husband, wife, and children – as the only true or moral way to live.'

I'm confused. 'Gender ideology' and 'genderism' is not about equal rights between the sexes, it's about the concept of an innate gender identity that can conflict with biological sex. Isn't it? It actually reinforces gender.

DadJoke - show me a way to support trans rights without having to say that sex isn't a stable and sometimes important category, and I'll do it. It is not fucking far right to say that i donate to the Abirtion Support Netwitk abd ge Linda Nirgrive Foundation because of what they do for women as a sex.

To me I think we are starting to get there in this country. Tbh I'd thank Emily Bridges for that - once people actually thought that British female sports champions might not get a fair shot at the Olympics, while boys were being lied to in a particularly unhealthy way, the useless policy that British Cycling had copy-pasted one slow afternoon to tick a diversity box melted away like snow on a barbecue. And once the Labour Party announced their policy was that sex and gender were different things, the female activists in the party had a place to stand.

I agree with RTB that it must feel insane to be a Democrat in the US with a rational viewpoint on sex rights at the moment.

Lordy, my typing. The Abortion Support Network and the Linda Norgrove Foundation.

NotTerfNorCis · Today 14:13

That is a huge reach by them, SinnerBoy! What policies? Delaying medical intervention on minors? Preventing males from competing in women's sports? Or does misgendering cause serious mental harm on a par with genocide?

It's just absolutely demented. Another example of the ocean going bullshit they punt out, to power their pity party.

Attacks on the gender critical movement come primarily for left wing feminists. It’s not an attack on feminism, even if a proportion of the anti trans movement are feminists. It’s the gender critical movement which is aligned with the right on transgender issues, not vice versa. Most feminists believe that LGBT rights and women’s are aligned, not opposed.

“Genderism” like “homosexualism” is simply a framing of reality as an ideology. Most of the medical and scientific establishment consider gender identity to be an established fact. Just because gender critical views on gender identity are protected, doesn’t mean they are correct.

Demented nails it

The abuse of children is aways a good litmus test. Insisting on access to the young and persuading them that their bodies are wrong and need fixing always confirms just how dangerous so many of these people are.

@DadJoke gender identity ideology teaches that if a male person says he's a woman, he is a woman, no debate. It goes beyond subjective feelings to a supposed objective reality. But what is it about this male that makes him a woman? What is a woman? That's why it's an ideology.

@PermanentTemporary there isn’t a single transgender person who thinks sex isn’t real (nutpicking aside.) Your sexed body is often important and you will find no better allies in the struggle for reproductive rights than the LGBT community. Sometimes, however, your genitals and reproductive organs don’t figure in women’s oppression. Trans women suffer misogyny as well as transphobia, for example.

There was a very weird backlash from some gender critical feminists against a move to provide free sanitary protection at schools, and it was only when I saw it was supported by transgender people that I realised why it was being opposed.

Step one is, where your interests align with transgender people in supporting women’s rights, align.

Man lectures women about women's rights on a feminist board 😂
Some thing never change...

It doesn't take long to understand that there are often different views about what reproductive rights means though. I care about things that oppress women, and also children, which means I oppose surrogacy. I don't think there is a unified voice in LGBTQ+ communities opposing surrogacy. I am 100% pro equal adoption and fostering (like most people - I know this isn't exactly groundbreaking).

I think the flex against period products provision was a kneejerk rejection of the concurrent attempts to pretend that periods aren't exclusively a female experience, and to promote mixed-sex school toilets. However, I agree that in fact referring to period products is a huge improvement on the old phrase 'feminine hygiene' and a feminist advance which has probably been turbocharged by the pro-trans movement.

Step one for me is to look at where women and girls are suffering. The girls and young women I know who are transitioning do not look like triumphant agents of progess to me. I do what I can to remain useful and supportive to them and in touch with them.

Trans women suffer misogyny

This is true. Misogynistic men do tend to look down on members of their sex who perform stereotypical behaviours of the opposite sex. But that's because they think men shouldn't "lower" themselves in this way, not because trans women are the same as women.

@DadJoke If you disagree with the Catholic Church, the far right and Christian extremism on everything apart from transgender rights, maybe it’s your view on transgender rights which is the issue.

You raise a very interesting point, Why is it that the US Christian Right and the TERFs of TERF Island share a strong belief in the reality and importance of sex, and the irrelevance of so called gender identity?

Could it be because they both know exactly which class of humans is subjected to oppressive gender norms so that they can be used and abused, primarily for the purpose of sexual gratification and procreation, by men? (Only differing on whether this is a good, or bad, thing.)

The Right objects to transwomen because they are gender nonconforming (and, perhaps, because they are claiming rights that even other men dont have). TERFS don't have a problem with them, provided it's taken into account that they're actually men. There is no such thing as transmisogyny.

The Left, on the other hand, are in la-la land. They never saw an underdog they didn't like, and transwomen are no exception. (Also see: CNN's unscientific insistence that Caster Semenya is a victim of misogynoir rather than just, well, male.)

When it comes to women, their support begins and ends with abortion and contraception. They're happy for women to be prostituted, and used for porn and surrogacy, in the name of 'empowerment' (whereas radfems consider this to be exploitation, and the Right thinks the women are all Godless sluts).

And they're happy for women to be forced to validate transwomen and cede their sex-based rights to them. This fact alone proves that they know exactly who the men are.

“Most feminists believe that LGBT rights and women’s are aligned”

Do they? Have they always?

I mean, rights for lesbians and bisexual women, yes, but beyond believing gay men should be treated as equal humans I don’t think there’s masses of feminist writing on gay men? I certainly don’t remember being recommend any reading on feminism and gay men back in the 80s and 90s when I started taking an interest in women’s rights.

So you don’t actually mean LGBT , because some of those letters have nothing to do with feminism at all.

Most of the medical and scientific establishment consider gender identity to be an established fact.

No they don't. Psychiatrists believe there is a psychological condition known as "gender dysphoria" where people are distressed by their sex. The majority of "the medical and scientific establishment" don't subscribe to the more wacky elements of your ideology. Unless you count "gender studies" as a science.

Oppose. I think the domination of Wikipedia's woman niche, for lack of a better term, by males masquerading as females as opposed to welcoming actual, genuine, real women who were born and have always been female, is highly toxic. Go ahead, "cancel" me, I don't care."

Good for her. Well said. Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, it's completely full of all sorts of bias by obsessed little men. Owen Jones used to edit the Israel pages, for eg.

I think that, as disruptors of patriarchal norms, feminists and gay men at least have enemies in common. Julie Bindel, however, is not impressed:

https://thecritic.co.uk/sexists-in-gay-armour/

@DadJoke

Female people exist. There are physical and social consequences to having a female body.

You acknowledge sex exists. You claim trans women respect and support the sex based needs of female people.

What is the collective name for all female people (the ones who used to be called Girls and Women before those words were appropriated to include male people who identify as women)?

You claim TRAs support and respect female people's sex based needs. How can you do that if you cannot even name us? If the language you use deliberately leaves no space for us, no way for us to articulate our experiences and our reality?

It's always annoying when FWR threads get derailed (by anything other than Tunnocks obvs) and it's always bloody men coming and and bloody mansplaining because they think nothing is more important than them and whatever way they have twisted, lied about or simply spectacularly misunderstood the evidence. Gahhhh 🤯

Please can you show evidence that the majority of the medical and scientific establishment consider gender identity an established fact. I don't believe that to be the case.

Strange this only applies to men with whom you disagree.

I offered a relevant answer to the OP then a whole bunch of other posters asked questions which I can either answer, and be accused of derailing, or not answer and be accused of avoiding questions.

I’ll stop posting on this thread.

Before you go dadjoke, can you answer this question. I think it's quite important to share the evidence if you have any.

That's usually a polite way of saying sex studies. I.e. sex differences. It's nothing to do with llthe lady essence brand.

Strange this only applies to men with whom you disagree.

That really is nonsense. If any man came on and started lecturing women here, they'd get short shrift Dadjoke, on most of the site, let alone FWR. This is an environment where unlike the rest of the internet the female perspective dominates, in all its varied forms. None of which males have much understanding of, regardless of their gender identity.

She describes herself as:
Kate Walton@waltonkate
Queer feminist activist and cat lady on unceded Ngunnawal/Ngambri land. She/her/they/them. [email protected]

She just has that Libfem simplistic view of the world where there are goodies and baddies,
Conservatives, Christians, men, white people, working class uneducated people, on the one hand and Women, LGBT, all other races, on the other.

No overlaps between rights, no conflict of rights, just churn out the propaganda, throw anyone who disagrees into the 'bad' pile, ad infenum blah, blah, blah.

Hope this helps

That's interesting. I used to debate MRAs, and their enemy was 'feminism', never 'gender ideology'. I'm not aware 'gender ideology' ever meant feminism or sexual equality in the English-speaking world.

Just did a quick Google for 'Gender-Ideologie', gender ideology in German. I haven't found much, but there is a link this short book: https://www.amazon.de/Abschied-von-den-Geschlechtern-Gender-Ideologie/dp/3894366184/ It's from a Christian perspective, and defines gender ideology as 'an ideology according to which every person can determine their own gender identity'. That's also what feminists understand as genderism.

Perhaps it's safer to use 'transgender ideology' though?