Lipstick what is the reason that women (the old fashioned type) wear it.

[Karensalright]

Just that really

Sorry hit return too soon, there is also now and in some ways worse, an expectation that men can tell women what they should wear. I cant remember the exact details at the moment but there was a woman who took her employer to court for trying to say as a woman she had to wear stupidly high, high heels.

In fact for me this is the worst aspect of fashion trends being negative, is this relentless presentation that stupidly high heels are fashionable. More than red lipstick, they are a symbol of men hobbling women - and in many istances wrecking women's backs and ankles.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/petition-companies-requiring-women-wear-high-heels-work/story?id=39064162

You wear nice things to make you look and feel good it’s the same as make up to make you look and feel good …I wouldn’t answer the phone without my slap on 🤣

I'm not sure that it is bollocks; you only have to look at sex dolls to see how those are fetishised to get an idea.

Also the facial lips of young women tend to be naturally redder and plumper. As we age, we lose a bit of colour and fat from lips, and lipstick is a way to correct this. Evolution theory would say we are signalling we are still fertile when we are not.

Mimicking labia doesn’t show you are fertile, though, you don’t lose them when your fertility drops.

If you’re using English, it’s Ireland. As Gaeilge, it is Éire, not Eire (or Éireann, depending on the grammar, but in this context the former version would be used); referring to Ireland as a burden is, well, rude. And suggesting that the fada doesn’t matter/everyone knows what you mean anyway (as I’ve seen people do when they make the same pivot from “Southern Ireland” to “Eire”) perhaps even ruder.

(Not drive-by sniping, my thoughts re: make-up already well-covered by others & no point in simply repeating them.)

[Attached image is a screenshot from an online Irish-English dictionary giving definition of Eire:
Similar words: Éire • deire • eile • eirg • eirre
eire, m. (gs. ~, pl. -rí). Load, burden. ~ droma, back-load. Tá sé ina ~ orm, it is a burden on me. Beidh sé d'~, ar ~, agat (é a dhéanamh), it will take you all your time (to do it). Tá ~ a dhroma d'hiacha air, he is weighed down with debt. (Var:f)]

The redness has a dual purpose: it indicates youth (so, fertility) plus sexual availability. This is on a subconscious level, so women who wear red lipstick are not actively thinking these things.

No, I dont think women are conciously or subconsciously thinking they’re painting labia on their faces, what I disagree with is the whole notion that that is what it represents.

I think it’s a sexist assumption that women have labia so the lips must be to remind men we have them even though they are covered. Both parts serve a purpose of their own. I think it was male scientists or anthropologists making a link based on their own views of women’s bodies.

I think there are actual people who know what they are talking about on this thread, I would be keen to hear their thoughts (and if you are one of them, I’d like to know more. It’s genuinely interesting. )

Except I just read on this thread that women in hospital post mastectomy where being instructed by messed each morning to get up, get dressed and do their hair and make up... there's a very strong implication there of an expectation that to feel good about themselves, ready for the day and 'feminine' a woman must spend time fiddling with their hair and painting their face.
Something doesn't have to be spelt out in words of one syllable to be an expectation.

To late to edit... but women were being instructed by nurses, not messed

Love lipstick but it bothers me that men v few men wear make up. If it was really about ‘feeling good’ etc they would wear it too. It’s really about conforming to cultural ‘beauty’ norms.

Something doesn't have to be spelt out in words of one syllable to be an expectation.

Maybe it does for some of us. But in your example it is being spelt out, if the nurses are actually 'instructing' these women to do those things.

I'm not sure how I'd react if I was in that situation, being 'instructed' to put on make up and 'do' my hair just after having a major operation. I never wear make up and doing my hair in the morning consists of a quick brush through.

It is an interesting question, and I do find the replies interesting, because I simply don't get it. It's surprisingly hard to understand why other people do the things they do.

Not sure that’s quite right - we were encouraged to dress in a way that made us feel good for ourselves. It’s a thing that if you lose something like a bosom and your hair, you can lose ‘you’ and stop caring for yourself and get very depressed.
no one instructed you to wear lipstick! I don’t, but they were right, a hot shower wand clean pjs worked wonders. They also gave me a little bottle of shower gel a kind company had donated (Baylis) I don’t know if they ever realised what an amazingly powerful donation that was.

I don't remember the word used in the post, and I'm sure it wasn't an order... but I can well imagine the nurses thinking they are doing a good thing by strongly encouraging these poor post-op women to do these 'normal' things to make themselves feel better, and - specifically - still feminine. Like you, I never wear make-up, and 'doing my hair' takes about 30 seconds (see username)... I'm pretty sure I'd be severely pissed off by it.

I'm not sure how I'd react if I was in that situation, being 'instructed' to put on make up and 'do' my hair just after having a major operation. I never wear make up and doing my hair in the morning consists of a quick brush through.

I'd say I don't wear make up. I don't. All I'd have with me woul be toothbrush/ toothpaste, hairbrush and lipbalm. Possibly moisturiser, but I often forget that when I'm away from.home.

Having clean teeth and hair usually makes me feel better, but being expected to wear make-up would just make me laugh.

Not sure if you were the original poster, but that sounds a bit different from the first post I read. And much more reasonable.

I just went back through the thread to find the post you were talking about (which I didn't remember at all). This is what she said:

Every morning the nurses would chivvy those ladies to get up, get dressed and do hair & makeup.

'Chivvy' is more like encourage than instruct, and if the encouragement was to just get up, washed and dressed, then I'd see that as positive.

Karensalright · 07/03/2024 23:36
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@JaneJeffer i dont know that is why i am asking, on a feminist board, duh”

So feminists can’t enjoy wearing lipstick?

'Chivvying' is execrable what I was imagining. I'm probably being a bit touchy about it, but I do think normalising 'doing hair and make up' as being part of 'feeling yourself', particularly after surgery that is likely to make women feel they have lost something of their femininity, is problematic.

I agree with you. I don’t need to be coerced into a performance of acceptable public-facing feminine self-presentation when I’m recovering from surgery.

Exactly. And the implication is that men look good enough as they are, while the female body needs a lot of hard work even for the person inside it to be trustworthy!

Blame Beau Brummell! He very determinedly invented the notion that masculine fashion was meant to be understated and austere and should not be flouncy or colourful and those things were feminine.

Before then men wore powder and patch if they were aristocratic (and neither working class men or women did)

People did all sorts of things 200 years ago that we've long since abandoned. If men want to dress flamboyantly they can (and a few do). Women don't have to wear make up or dress to look pretty and feminine if they don't want to.

None of us should have to paint our faces in order to be deemed trustworthy or worthy of employment.

Most men I’ve encountered (in a relationship context) don’t like me wearing lipstick, as they worry it will come off on them if I kiss them. Even when I assure them it’s a long stay type and demo it not coming off on my hand.

As a teen I always wore red lipstick - it was something of a trademark for me - and boys nicknamed me BJ Lips, as it obviously drew attention to my lips and made them think about what I could do with them. If my labia looked like that I’d be very concerned!

As I’ve got older my lips have gone a bluish pink colour making me look dead. So now I use warmer pinks to try and put some life back in my face, the same way I wear blusher to make my cheeks look less deathly, and concealer for my under eye bags, eyeliner for my sparse lashes and dye for my grey roots, just trying to approximate the youthful glow I’ve lost.