Sexist and dangerous Samaritans ad

[Meadowbird]

https://twitter.com/samaritans/status/1760599123923722266

A really bizarre ad - encouraging lone women to approach disturbed men on deserted train station platforms and ask them out for a coffee. What could possibly go wrong? They also will become sexier if they do apparently.

Yes, that's basically it!

The more I think about it, the more ridiculous the coffee line seems. It just sounds like a come on.

I get the premise that a simple interaction can be enough to break a chain of thought and stop (for now) the suicidal behavior. But as others have said, if you felt it was OK to do this, why not ask a train related question? Sounds so much less like a come on. Because if you were actually looking for coffee not an excuse to chat, you'd ask staff in the station, surely. That's why it sounds like a come on.

I did a little test and ran the ad past a male friend.

Him: The script says WHAT? That's usually a chat-up line! That's terrible!

Me: well, a lot of people online think it isn't a come-on.

Him: and would that guarantee any distressed man they tried it out on wouldn't think so? Are distressed, possibly suicidal men at their best when it comes to correctly interpreting other people's intentions? Particularly women's?

Yes neighbourhood. It seems bizarre to think that because ‘some’ people don’t believe it is an invitation, that a male potentially considering suicide wouldn’t think that it was. There really is an issue to because it is telling women to ‘step up and ignore their discomfort’ despite some others denying it.

So, there are a number of issues with this ad, the people who signed it off do need to hear how the audience perceives their creation. Because they need to consider these issues before repeating the same error.

Writing emails to that effect and discussing it is not targeting an organisation. That is catastrophising and absolutist tactics right there.

Him: and would that guarantee any distressed man they tried it out on wouldn't think so? Are distressed, possibly suicidal men at their best when it comes to correctly interpreting other people's intentions? Particularly women's?

And, let us be open to the possibility that some people/men, may be profoundly distressed or depressed or angry but not suicidal when they're approached.

I've posted the BMJ paper about the previous campaign. What was understandably and very obviously missing was any information about anyone who'd used the small talk approach with someone who wasn't suicidal and then had difficulties disentangling themselves or other problems.

In my experience only men would fail to see why this is dangerous.

Women do not live in a constant state of fear so much as of knowing. We know men are stronger, more aggressive in general, and we know to approach a stranger who is male with care. If at all.

Many men just don't get it.

Precisely.

And 'taking reasonable precautions' does not equal 'living in fear'- something that seems lost on a bunch of recent posters.

I don't 'live in fear' of car accidents but I do wear a seat belt. I don't live in fear of a heart attack but I do take moderate steps for a healthy lifestyle.

There seems to have been a lot of women posting here recently about how they've been sexually assaulted but don't 'fear men' nor see any real need to take precautions around unknown males (therefore other women shouldn't have boundaries, the argument seems to be). That doesn't sound healthy. It's especially not healthy to have so little empathy for other women nor to suggest that all women should be happy to take the same risks as they apparently are.

The cynic in me wonders whether the posts are genuine.

Exactly. I've previously encountered issues after asking male fellow passengers genuine questions. Sometimes, that gets taken as an invitation.

And can we have 6 as a %age of the male population? Difficult to compare these figures otherwise.

So how men feel is valid, & how women feel isn't. Got it.

Silly wimminz.

IME men are acutely aware of hierarchies of size, strength, social position, money, vulnerability etc. They 'take reasonable precautions' too. It's just that nobody gives them grief for it.

Assuming these figures are accurate & comparable (who knows?), I make it 0.00002% of men versus 0.097% of women.

But I'm pretty sure I was away when we did percentages in maths class, so all bets are off really.

That’s a very high percentage of women in a country of 70 million.

And 'taking reasonable precautions' does not equal 'living in fear'- something that seems lost on a bunch of recent posters.
it must be terrible for all you drivers living in fear of your cars being stolen so much you actually lock your cars every time you leave them. Must be so limiting. Don’t live like that. Leave it unlocked. So much more freeing.

I'm going to give you some stats.

90% of rape victims do not report their rapes.

The boys who groped my vulva at age of eight were strangers to me, older boys in my school who I didn't know the names of. The man who put his hand on my arse on the train was a stranger. The man who grabbed me by the lapels in the street for no reason was a stranger.

I didn't report any of those attacks.

Does it not occur to you that that the ONS figures for assaults upon women might be a grotesque underestimate?

Quote from wikipedia

Frotteurism is a paraphilic interest in rubbing, usually one's pelvic area or erect penis, against a non-consenting person for sexual pleasure.It may involve touching any part of the body, including the genital area. A person who practices frotteuristic acts is known as a frotteur.

Toucherism is sexual arousal based on grabbing or rubbing one's hands against an unexpecting (and non-consenting) person. It usually involves touching breasts, buttocks or genital areas, often while quickly walking across the victim's path.[1]Some psychologists consider toucherism a manifestation of frotteurism, while others distinguish the two.[2] In clinical medicine, treatment of frotteuristic disorder involves cognitive behavioral therapy coupled with the administration of an SSRI.

In retrospect, I first experienced this from an adult man, aged 11. Possibly 12. How many of us haven't experienced this? How many women report it?

I didn't report it to anyone, because I didn't even understand why he was doing it. It still happened though.

So women are more than 1000x more likely to be attacked by a stranger than a man is to commit suicide?

Those stats very much support the woman talking herself out of it position.

Also if women approached random upset men more (as suggested by this ad), they'd undoubtedly get assaulted by strangers more often. Plenty of examples on this thread. Women generally don't do this as know the risks.

Bit like driving drunk without a seatbelt: not guaranteed to end badly but why put yourself in that position?

And I bet public transport is one of the most frequent settings for this. Certainly recall some horrible man doing this to me age about 10/11 on the tube. Gross fucker. OBVIOUSLY didn't report it- didn't actually even know what had happened at the time, or even what sperm was.

I believe 10-12 is the age these men deliberately target because girls of that age won't identify the gits' motivation.

@CauliflowerBalti
To clarify, I posted that posters on this thread can contact the Samaritans [email protected] email with feedback about the advert. The Samaritans said they welcome feedback to improve future campaigns (and this is a good thing).

In answer to your question about my post:
No - This does not mean “we” are “organising an attack on the Samaritans”.

It might be that a few women may choose to write an email to the Samaritans with their, brace yourself….views.

Women have views, women express their views, some women may write their views down and send them to the Samaritans (in hope for change) because...

Some women might not agree with the Samaritans advert attempting to appeal to
“an embryonic noble nurse that is supposed to be curled, efficient, and self-sacrificing at the heart of every true woman”

(quote from Margaret Atwood, The Edible Woman p.g. 132)

The problem is also whilst in the narrative of the ad the man is suicidal and needs someone to intervene to help him. Therefore, in the advert’s world, the man is innocent and in need. If a woman speaks to him she WILL save his life (there is no option here that he will jump before she speaks, or jumps regardless). This advert is storyboarded that

Man is suicidal
Woman chooses to distract with a comment
Man breaks out of his own feelings for long enough to “lose the moment” and go on to access help.

It’s an advert, that is the only outcome here.

In real life, though, the facts may be completely different and may NOT play out this way. The ad assumes all gloomy faced men standing by railway tracks are one thing whereas life has shown many of us that scenario may be wildly misjudged.

That’s why it’s not recommended to approach strange men and ask where you can get coffee. You may not be saving a life, you may be opening yourself to harassment, abuse, assault etc and it’s impossible to know in advance.

I mean, if it’s so unthinkable to show a man approaching (why?) a couple could have been talking to each other - “is he ok? Should we say something? Let’s go over? excuse me, is this the platform for the blah blah train?”

if You look up the agency and the team that created this ad they are all men. Just saying.

Y was wondering about the ad agency: very poor service on their part! Though the client should’ve identified the problems.

They said that they tested it with various groups.

Before the launch across digital and traditional media, as well as with posters in railway settings, the campaign’s potential effectiveness was tested with commuters, the public and people with lived experience.

Maybe this is what they actually did:
Before the launch across digital and traditional media, as well as with posters in railway settings, the campaign’s potential effectiveness was tested with male commuters, other men and men with lived experience.

But even so, surely some of those men would have said that it looked as though the woman was chatting him up.