Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

The problem is that I think the only reason to exclude trans women is prejudice.

It can't be prejudice - to prejudice is to advantage or disadvantage one group...
Men (including 'trans women') have changing rooms and loos already, so there is no disadvantage to tell 'trans women' (men) to use the loos they already have...

"Plus, being made to use the wrong changing room is an assault on their dignity. Merely having to change in the same room as a trans woman is not"

how is it an assault on their dignity to ask 'trans women' (men) to change with other men? They will be able to wander around naked looking exactly the same as everyone else in that space... and no-one cares if they wish to turn up in a skirt... if you think there is a loss of dignity to be in the men's changing rooms then you are being sexist against men...

and surely a 'trans woman' (man) is going to be depressed and see their mental health suffer by changing with women as they will simply be reminded continually of what they can never be?! 😁

Exactly. It's men's rights activism. No more no less.

Yes, exactly!
Some women WILL be discriminated against when accessing services if a male-bodied person is there! Women of certain religions, for one.
Why can't you understand this?

No. It is very relevant.

Because consent doesn't just refer to sexual activity. Again, you acknowledge that you have no boundaries, and that you don't believe anyone should have boundaries. It is fucking concerning that you have anything to do with assessing and enforcing safeguarding.

When you see it, it cannot be unseen.

You may be completely happy but you cannot decide on behalf of other women, who are not. As for 'a sign on the door' isn't going to stop a predator, we've been through this already. Laws and social norms cannot police every wrongdoer but they stop a lot - which is what we want. So no men in women's spaces ever is a good rule. And not in the least transphobic.

You are again showing that you do not even understand the concept of discrimination.

You seem to have a very simplistic understanding of it, human rights and many things you are overly confident about.

Easy question. A woman is an adult female human. Laws protect women from men because although most men are not predators 98% of violent crime is carried out by men. Which is why the laws are useful.

Just leaving this here as it is a new page.

A spinny skirt and lipstick.

Women for whom modesty is a concern should absolutely have a private cubicle they can use.

Giving up on this thread, but looking forward to interacting again with some of the well-informed, articulate ladies I’ve met here in the last day or so. Ideally on a thread that hasn’t been hijacked by trans activists with no interest in women’s rights or wellbeing.

Where is there any evidence for this assertion?

Oh FGS. You just do not get it at all, do you.

It's not just about "modesty"

PP82 just to confirm, you are a British biological woman who has been raped in British toilets twice but wants toilets to still be mixed sexed. You have/had responsibilities for safeguarding young people but have not gained access to support or legal help from people over your (3?) rapes because all the woman around you have been raped. You also worked in Britain worked on a maternity ward and want your body to be pregnant with an embryo created by a donor egg but have no grasp on the statistics the clinic gave you. And when pp gently pointed out to you that these statistics (and your hopes) are wrong you completely ignored it then went down the Marx/lefty political route, much like many ranty man saying this is all the fault of the right. Despite the fact most state we are/were left wing on this board and lament about being politically homeless.

I would have thought the most logical course this discussion would have taken was for you to argue the statistics of the fertility clinic or discuss it as least. After all that is a very emotive female experience. Then talk about your responsibilities in safeguarding and how your horrendous experiences have affected you and how you can prevent this happening to everyone else. What safeguards we can put in place.

You too @BusyMummy001 I'm interested in your research.
Makes me wish "us lot" could have a virtual coffee chat or something

You first I think.

There is hypocrisy in asking for evidence when you have avoided doing so for most of the thread.

Perhaps we should PM and set up an FB group?!

@PP82

Women for whom modesty is a concern should absolutely have a private cubicle they can use.

And at venues where a private cubicle simply isn't available yet, what would you prefer if a religious woman cannot change in front of a natal male?

Would you honestly prefer for a trans woman to be able to use the women's communal changing area if it means that the religious woman cannot use it anymore?

One of them has to miss out on this occasion. Them both using the space is not possible because the religious woman would have to self exclude if the trans woman used the communal changing area.

Surely in that case at least you would acknowledge that the religious woman's sex based right should be upheld so she can continue to use the venue rather than having to stop accessing?

I was raped in toilets twice, once by two men together. All the men were British, but neither of those rapes happened in Britain. I have also been raped twice in Britain, but not in a toilet.

I'll keep throwing money at the problem of my fertility, until I have my baby. I've chosen a highly regarded clinic, and am optimistic that the treatment will work in the end. If not I'll go elsewhere. Donor egg treatment has very high rates of success, so why wouldn't I proceed?

As in, a private, single-sex space. Good idea. We could call it the female toilet. Maybe we could have several cubicles next to each other as well, because lots of women care about modesty, privacy, etc when it comes to bodily functions and personal care, so there's bound to be demand for it.

And if people who aren't biologically female want to use it, we can explain that, for modesty, privacy, etc reasons, it's important to have access to a private, single-sex space.

Why didn't anyone think of this sooner?

If she won't accept the trans woman's female identity, that's her choice.

If she won't accept the trans woman's female identity, that's her choice.

So progressive.

She's also been an illegal immigrant and has since been employed to support immigrants.

If she won't accept the trans woman's female identity, that's her choice.

And you have the cheek to call us insane.