Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

How do you know he was cisgendered? Did you ask their pronouns? Have you checked in on them lately to see how they present?

Do you not see just how awful that position is?

I was also sexually assaulted as a child - I would not want any other person to go through that so will do anything I can to ensure men are not given access to other women and children.

Which court judgement?

There are now numerous. Perhaps you would like to tell us which one and we can discuss it rather than this rather dismissive reply?

Donate your money to Stonewall. I remember you saying you weren't wealthy. I don't give a fuck.

I'm perhaps not as skint as you. I'll keep funding the legal cases 🥰

If you actually read my post you would see that all 3 men (two occasions, three men) were known to me. Were members of my social circle. Most women know their rapists beforehand.

If they have transitioned since, it doesn't change the fact that they were living as cis gendered men when they raped me.

But thanks for the glib suggestion that I should check in with my rapists. Much empathy.

Haven’t we had the “there’s only six of you” comment before?

I am still Spartacus!

And our socks.

My socks are also Spartacus!

You really cannot engage with the information needed to support your views can you?

"I will not debate the slur that trans people are more likely to be sex offenders, whatever dodgy stats you try to bait me with."

You also cannot tell what is and is not a slur, it seems.

We are asking for factual evidence to support your claims, and to support even your logic. The fact you cannot seem to reconcile this is concerning considering that I think your misrepresentations are quite extraordinary.

Let me simplify it for you.

Are male transitioners still 'male' or have they become 'female'? Yes or no?

If you say they are 'female', please provide the evidence because you would win a Nobel prize for that.

If you say they are 'male', which we have been led to believe the majority of male trans people also believe, ie. that they have NOT changed sex, then answer the question asked:

Can you please provide the evidence that the risk of male people with a trans identity committing a sex offence is lower than the rest of the male UK population for safeguarding.

What I hate about pretty much any thread on the feminism boards, is the staggering amount of snide towards any opinion that does not fit in perfectly with those who dominate these threads.

Way to win people over to your side.

I can spare a few bob here and there.

Interesting insight into your thinking. So smug at the idea that rights can be bought by those with the deepest pockets, at the expense of those with less. Perhaps true, but you clearly relish that fact.

I think Stonewall have plenty of wealthy donors anyway

Well I suppose snide makes a change from death threats which is so very common to the 'other side' if you want to make it about sides.

Women fgs be nice and polite to the people busy destroying your rights and saying absolute bullshit to you! Smile nicely at your abusers and remember that women are only heard when they use their indoor voices.

"Her voice was ever soft, gentle and low; an excellent thing in woman." 300 lines please girls, and don't be late for prep or you'll be hemming sheets with matron tonight.

"I will not debate the slur that trans people are more likely to be sex offenders, whatever dodgy stats you try to bait me with."

Can any one else see the transphobia behind this statement?

This poster has already assumed that trans people 'are more likely' to be sex offenders than the rest of the UK male population. Gosh.... I have tried to maintain that they are 'no less likely' not 'more likely' despite the UK prison stats..... yet... we get this?

I could become a man easily. I live in Spain so all I need to do is sign a declaration.

But you'd still be a woman, even with your bit of paper saying you're a man.

Are truths slurs if they're inconvenient truths?

we have offered evidence (snidely dismissed); we have offered empathy for a certain poster’s miscarriage and rape experience (snidely dismissed, as were our own exchanges on the reasons we hold the positions we do rooted in our own trauma).

This is a feminist discussion forum - anti-feminists coming on, sneering, mocking, ignoring evidence we are exchanging, offering none in return and derailing the discussion is rather like a muslim fundamentalist crashing an evangelical Christian revival.

On a chromosomal level they are male. Socially they are female.

yes you find it bizarre. Because you have shown us and told us that you have no boundaries.

I am very sorry that you have been raped. I hope that you have received enough ongoing support.

However, just because you have no boundaries it doesn't give you any right to shame and denigrate women who do have boundaries that are higher. I believe for all your quoting of human rights, you keep missing that one. The safety and dignity of female people.

Ummm. No. The assertion that trans women are more likely to be sex offenders is repeated ad infinitum on this board. It's a baseless slur and I called it out as thus.

Minty, what I hate is that posters appear, tell us we’re wrong; refuse to engage in any actual explanation of why they think that; tell us all the stats and research is wrong, without producing any evidence for that; and expect us to prioritise dealing with a few men who have uncomfortable feelings and ignore women, many of whom are now dealing with uncomfortable feelings (or frankly, far worse)

You said you’re happy to share - which is answering the question and that’s fine. Hopefully you’d also acknowledge that many women aren’t, and their feelings are valid too. Unless you also think that some people’s discomfort is more important that others

Great.

So they are male. The EA is not based not the 'social' acceptance of a male as anything other than material reality.

Now,

Can you please provide the evidence that the risk of male people with a trans identity committing a sex offence is lower than the rest of the male UK population for safeguarding.

And sorry, using your own personal definition that they are 'socially female' doesn't make them female. They remain a sub group of MALE.

Oh @PP82 I see. So how do you become a female "socially"?

Very much apparent.

You call it "snide", I call it the expectation that arguments will be robust, viewpoints will be justified, reasoning will be logical and evidence will be provided to back up claims.

No one's trying to win anyone over to a "side", that's very juvenile. Women's rights are not a game. On here we are all different with varying views.
It seems as if you are expecting women to just be nice to anyone who engages on here.

Yes. PP82 has shown this as a great example.

As I said before, the degree of emotional manipulation, falsehoods, misrepresentations, derision, derogation and demonisation, dehumanisation and over generalisations, polarisation and catatrophisation that that poster has used has been very clear from the first.

Would you like to point to anywhere that PP82 has approached with the openness to discuss the issue and NOT been staggeringly snide?

I think most women I know have been raped. I don't know anyone who has received any support at all, of any kind.

Women get raped, try to forget about it, and get on with their lives. Getting support is something that only happens in soaps or issue based dramas.

My friends were sympathetic but reasonably blasé, because they'd mostly all had similar experiences themselves. My family blamed my lifestyle. My therapists preferred to focus on other issues. Never a shred of support. Ever.

That said I don't think they are the most traumatic experiences I've ever had. Horrible sure, but much worse things have happened in my life. It's not always a defining, all consuming trauma.

Ok. But I have asked you and other posters repeatedly to show where they have LOWER likelihood.

Can posters please provide the evidence that the risk of male people with a trans identity committing a sex offence is lower than the rest of the male UK population for safeguarding.

You don't seem to be able to give any semblance of an answer except denial and dismissal.

Your dismissal now seems to be fully based on not evidence, but philosophical theory. Not even generally accepted philosophical theory. But a post modernist theory that a male can be a female if they say they are.

In what way do you think philosophical theory is relevant to safeguarding?

You can continue to try to distract from the question. But it will just keep being posted on every page from now on. So, would you and any other poster like to provide the evidence?

if not, why can't you? Don't you have it?