Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

yes. The hypocrisy is very clear by now.

But that is what happens when you have dehumanised the people you now view as the enemy.

Can you provide evidence that males who are trans are much more likely to be victims of sex crimes than perpetrators?

Or is this something you have made up .

Every other time I have seen this claim made, or a claim that MTF are more vulnerable to sexual assaults than women, it was either from a dubious source, extrapolated to the whole world from one non-European country, or based on a mistaken reading of the data. Or all of these. So until a source is posted that I can analyse, I will assume it's simply more unreliable TRA propaganda.

This thread really has continued to be a great demonstration of the tactics used by extreme trans rights activists.

We have had stellar examples of emotional manipulation, hyperbole, polarisation, over generalisation, catastrophising based on no evidence, and abuse where posters are denigrated with slurs and name called.

Even to the threats that we are going to somehow lose the right to abortion.

And not once has evidence been produced to support the inclusion of those male people who have demanded access to female single sex spaces being lower risk than other male people.

And not once has any poster declared just how many additional women and girls are to be considered acceptable collateral for those male persons to be able to have their demands fulfilled.

Readers, it is not surprising. These have been all very common tactics and very common arguments being deployed here to support male people accessing female single sex spaces. There are a few more to come though. So stay watching.

I expect that we shall be evidence free of that claim as well as all the others.

I agree. It is never evidenced at all.

AND even if it was, it remains that women and girls are not human shields and that third spaces need to provided . Or a campaign that all male people are welcome in male spaces regardless of 'gender'.

In addition @Helleofabore ,we've also seen posters extend sympathy and empathy (about fertility struggles and baby loss) to the very same poster who has dismissed, belittled and mocked their personal experiences, fears and concerns both before and after that sympathy and empathy was extended. Unsurprising, but astonishing.

So a US study of over 6400 trans persons found that 51.2% of trans sex workers experienced physical assault (v 32.5@ on trans non-sex workers); and 23.2% of trans sex workers experienced sexual assault/rape (v 9.8% on trans non sex workers) (1)

By comparison, a Canadian study of white female sex workers revealed that 57% experienced gender based violence (rape/sexual assault), ie putting them slightly more at risk than they trans peers (2); rapecrisis.com states that 1 in 4 (25%) of women experience rape and/or sexual assault as an adult, again showing that women are 2.5x more likely to experience this compared to TW non sex workers.

1. https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/Meaningful%20Work-Full%20Report_FINAL_3.pdf
2. https://www.bmj.com/content/339/bmj.b2939
3. https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

These findings have been replicated repeatedly over the last two decades across demographics and geo locations and produce similar statistical results.

In summary of the above post - ergo, women are more vulnerable and absofknlutely deserve the safety of same sex spaces - changing rooms, loos and anything else that can be legitimately discriminated for to provide protection.

A very minute portion of the adult population are pedophiles...and yet, we quite rightly legislate so that all adults can not have full access to children. There is a whole safe guarding thing going on - people working with children have to have a police checks, teachers leave the door open if they ever have to speak to a child one-to-one etc etc.
So I don't get why when it comes to this issue it is then not Ok to legislate to avoid the minute portion of the adult population who do get a sexual kick out of going into toilets / change rooms of the opposite sex.
Why can't biological men go into biological men's changing rooms? Just because they feel like they are a woman and dress like they are a woman - if they are saying its OK for their biological male self to be changing around women - why is it also not OK for their biological male self to be changing around men?
Why can't women's changing rooms be for biological women only and men's changing rooms be open sex? We need more men to stand up a say they are Ok about transexuals being in their space because they want to keep women's only safe spaces for their partners and daughter's.
I will defend anyone's right to be their authentic self as long as its not hurting someone else. But this issue of keeping woman's safe spaces safe is important because it is hurting someone else.
I remember 25 years ago being in a gym in London in the women's changing rooms with a transexual woman who raised her outer leg and let her towel drop while looking me in the eye so I could see her male genitals. I thought it odd at the time but it wasn't until I left that I realised she was getting a kick out of showing me her genitals. I was in my 30s at the time and brushed it off but looking back now I have children I would be mortified if she had of done this to my daughter or another young impressionable female.

Perfectly happy to go on insanely protecting women's rights and equalities against a small group of boundary breaking men's sexual rights and male supremacism. Completely good with that thanks.

Politics or sociology classmates?

Really? You knew "us guys existed and were bad".

Who are you talking about? "Us guys" are women. Women of different ages and backgrounds. Women of different nationalities and personalities. Women who are mothers, or daughters, or sisters or wives, or partners, or friends. The one thing we have in common is our sex.

But you think we are "bad".

I rest my case.

No, in a professional capacity. With safeguarding responsibilities.

Before that, I knew you guys existed and were bad, but thought you were irrelevant and should be ignored.

Pretty sure this is dehumanising hate speech towards those expressing our perfectly reasoned, evidenced, GC opinions on a feminism board in a country where expressing GC opinions is protected in law?

I mean people who fall under the banner of the t word I'm not allowed to use on here. You really are quite a small group. You just make a lot of noise.

So .... we are still evidence free then? Good to note.

Well one thing that is absolutely certain is that after page after page of claiming that there is no such thing as a sex class, @PP82 knows exactly who the men are.

God, you're so proud of that one court judgement aren't you? You all brandishing it around constantly. It just means you can't be sacked, not that you are part of a real, actual oppressed minority.

?

You go on telling yourself that we're a small group if it makes you feel better.

And don't hold your breath on the Gen Zers waving your flag.

My teenage DDs and most of their friends are the same. They just don't say it out loud because they are scared. As they get older and go through life they will find their voice and it will be every bit as loud as their mothers'. Until then then the generations before them will hold the line.

That would be like engaging with evidence against those promoting the blood libel, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or The Bell Curve. Hate filled myths about minorities based on phony science do not deserve to be legitimised thus. We can debate public policy, but I will not debate the slur that trans people are more likely to be sex offenders, whatever dodgy stats you try to bait me with.

The ones who require the special treatment.

Women are bigoted for fearing men and wanting single sex spaces

But men who identify as trans women are not bigoted for fearing men and using women's single sex spaces.

It is very evident which sex class of human you find worthy of special treatment.

I mean people who fall under the banner of the t word I'm not allowed to use on here. You really are quite a small group. You just make a lot of noise.

You'd love to be able to use that slur what a pity you have to resort to using other dehumanising language instead, my hear bleeds for you being unable to use the abusive weapon of your choice.

Small group? Yeah right, but even if we were we win court case after court case after court case so not just noise makers after all.

It is very evident which sex class of human you find worthy of special treatment.

Yep. It's in the name.

@PP82

The statistics are that trans women are as dangerous as their sex class, that's the point. Treat them as men and you've correctly anticipated the risk.