Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

This poster will pivot to whatever weak argument she has at any given time to enable her to carry on insulting the women on this thread and boasting about how superior she is.

These types of people of both sexes have flocked to one of the most misogynistic social movements in modern times, and it's not hard to see why.

Those were not women's boundaries - women and girls were considered available to be exploited at will by men - or were seen as the property of men to be protected for their sole use.

What a display of ignorance.

Please stop with the dehumanising referral to posters on this board as 'you lot'.

I understand that you hold very prejudiced views on who posts here. However, this dehumanisation is just more of your emotionally manipulative tactics. I understand that you seek to distance yourself from opinions of others that you find disagree with yours, but the socially accepted way to deal with that is to bring evidenced arguments to a discussion thread.

Not in the continuous stream of derogatory accusations and insults that you seem to feel enhances your position.

Perfectly put, Helle.

Excellent question. PP82 is evidently not prepared to engage with it though. Maybe those insults are still reserved for women.

The idea that the right want to curtail women's reproductive rights is a conspiracy theory?

Trans women are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of sex crimes. They have legitimate reason to be afraid.

Plus, being made to use the wrong changing room is an assault on their dignity. Merely having to change in the same room as a trans woman is not.

If cubicles are sufficient to keep women safe from males in female spaces then they are sufficient to keep transwomen safe from males in male spaces.

If a sign won't keep dangerous men out of women's toilets then transwomen aren't any safer in them so no reason for them not to use the gents.

Never seen any stats which show that transwomen are more at risk in men’s toilets - do you have any? Seen plenty that women are more at risk in mixed-sex facilities though

Here we go again… that the US Republican party are heinously dismantling women’s reproductive rights is an issue local to the US and has bugger all to do with male/TW access to women’s loos and changing rooms. It is an issue I am sure many of us care about on this board and, were I US resident, I would be abjectly campaigning against.

Just as I care about exploitation of women’s reproductive capabilities and health when it comes to harvesting the eggs of vulnerable, impoverished women to provide babies for older women with money who feel they are entitled to have a baby by whatever means that capitalism will facilitate.

Gosh, do we really want to get into discussing reproductive rights and just continue to bring home that no person has the right to use a female person's fertility to fulfil their own need.

Arguing about 'reproductive rights' while exploiting a woman's body is very hypocritical. Almost like there are no boundaries unless it is expedient to your political aims.

And the folk on the far right of the Conservative Party to whom you are cosying up pose no danger to women's reproductive rights?

Impoverished or kind? Oh I forgot. Kindness is bad and must be mocked mercilessly.

@PP82

Trans women are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of sex crimes. They have legitimate reason to be afraid.

Whereas women are famously never victims of sex crimes and have no reason to be afraid...

Your misogyny shines through with every post.

Women's fears, experiences and concerns dismissed and earlier even mocked. Trans women's feelings respected and empathised with.

Astounding, truly.

Women should be free to have an abortion, and free to donate their eggs and be compensated for doing so. These are not inconsistent positions.

Accusations of "cosying up", "aligning", "allyship" with the right have been addressed and debunked on this board many, many times. It's just a lazy attempt at a smear.

Honestly, you should have a read around the FWR board. You might learn something. Widen your view a little. Realise there's a whole world outside your little bubble. Think critically about things instead of mindlessly repeating what you've seen on social media and tiktok.

"I fundamentally disagree with private healthcare and don't think it should be available" and "I fundamentally disagree with private healthcare and don't think it should be available to but in reality I am using it for something I personally want".

Do you see the inconsistency in those positions at least?

So, PP82…
Using the data produced by Trans/LGBTQIA+ organisations themselves, it indicates that, yes, TW are at high risk of sexual assault and rape - this is because a large number of them work in the sex trade (50-70% depending on which report you look at, and geolocation).

2022 data shows that of the 300 or so trans deaths, 48% were sex workers, most were killed by partners and pimps, 1/3 were in Brazil. (BTW, more people were trampled to death by the ever dwindling number of rhinos that year, but none of them were trans - just poor, indigenous men, women and children, so you probably wouldn’t care about those.)

Compared to the average woman, yes, TW are more at risk, but when you compare them to female sex workers, the stats are pretty identical. Ie TW are not more vulnerable because they are trans but because of their professions and the social cohort they belong to.

Sex workers - trans or otherwise - deserve legal, enforceable protections. You’d be surprised to learn that most of the feminists on this board support this too.

free to donate their eggs and be compensated for doing so

It's part of that whole capitalist machine you claim to hate so much. Really socking it to the man, aren't you.

@PP82 - what gives you the right to decide what is an "assault on my dignity"?

Oh I forgot. Kindness is bad and must be mocked mercilessly.

Okay, now I really do think you are trolling. Plenty of women on here have expressed kindness and empathy to others, especially regarding their experiences in hospitals and with post-natal care in maternity wards.
You are the one who has mocked women for their feelings and experiences.

Can you provide evidence that males who are trans are much more likely to be victims of sex crimes than perpetrators?

Or is this something you have made up .

@Peskysquirrel - yes she's quite spectacularly lacking in self awareness.

In her mind she's the kind one, only her kindness only extends to TW, aka men, because they're the important ones remember. Shame she can't buy her eggs from them as I'm sure they would be far superior to the eggs of a common or garden woman.

Oh I forgot. Kindness is bad and must be mocked mercilessly.

Mate, multiple people including me expressed our sympathy for your miscarriage and wished you luck on your fertility journey.

Before and after such posts, you have belittled, dismissed and actively mocked the feelings, experiences and worries of the very same posters who expressed sympathy and wished you well.

Are you not keeping track of your own approach on this thread?

"Plus, being made to use the wrong changing room is an assault on their dignity. Merely having to change in the same room as a trans woman is not"

Indeed, it is an assault on a female person's dignity to be in a changing room with a male without that female's consent. And while YOU might have no boundaries, other women do. And they have stated that they do not consent to be in the changing room with a male person.

Really. ... logic is not strong in your arguments. They are devoid of logic at this stage and entirely ideologically driven.

PP clearly doesn't see transwomen as women as if she did, she wouldn't be saying that society should give a shit about them. Putting the wants of transwomen before the needs of women shows so clearly that they are not women. Treating them like women would be telling them to shut the fuck up and saying they don't deserve dignity or protection from violent males.