Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

Seriously, your post makes no sense in response to mine. Try again.

So we haven't found away around male people assaulting female people? Not even letting male people use women's facilities has solved it? 😱😱😱😱 shock horror.

There is nothing in my post that suggests it was ever not the case.

You say we've"found ways around" biology... that suggest we've "solved" male violence. I was pointing out that we haven't.

What other sex-based issues have we "found a way around". Tell us. Be specific.

Your reading comprehension is poor. 98% of sexual assaults have always been committed by men, before trans people could use the correct facilities for their gender, and this statistic would remain true were they banned from doing so.

You lot are obsessed with women's fear. You fetishise it. I've been raped and sexually assaulted more times than I can count. I can't think of a single friend who hasn't been. We aren't all in a constant state of fear in the presence of anyone with a penis, and if we were, the correct response would be to seek medical help. But your lot love the idea of women being traumatised and afraid, and weaponise it to suit your own agenda.

Black women are women. White women are women. Trans women are women. Nothing racist about that.

Black women are women. They are not a subset of women.
Transwomen are a subset of men.
You cannot even see your own racism.

If this is true then I am very sorry for your repeated trauma and I can understand why your boundaries have been lost.

But your trauma is not a reason to insist that women must lose privacy and dignity, and that we must exclude women of faiths, cultures, belief systems, disabilities and traumas for no other reason than to give men absolute freedoms at women's loss and expense.

That's insane.

I'm in my 40s and just getting around to starting a family. 50 years ago my chances would have been low. Now I can get pregnant whenever I want.

I wasn't talking about sex based issues specifically. But any time anyone survives something they would have died from 50 or 100 years ago, they are transcending the limits of their biology. Including people who would not have survived childbirth without c sections, antibiotics etc.

My boundaries have not been lost due to trauma. I always felt this way. What an insulting and patronising assumption to make.

Not worried her DD might be upset or confused?

Okay my bad. Not a subset of men. Just men.

The pertinent biological issue under discussion on this thread is why we seperate the sexes when public undressing is required. Toilets and changing room.

You suggested that we shouldn't now do this because we have "found ways around" biology in "all sorts of ways." I asked how we had found a way around the relevant biological issue. You wanged out some daft answer to do with tranzzzzz people. Not relevant. How have we solved the issue that 98% of sexual assaults are committed by males in order to justify mixing the sexes? That's the biological issue we need to have solved for it to be ok.

"Transwomen" retain male pattern criminal behaviour, including sexual assault. So it is relevant that they are male when it comes to sharing spaces where people undress.

No

Oh and I'll tell my couple of friends whose female bodies are utterly fucked by years of IVF and are still childless that we've "solved" fertility issues and they can actually "have children whenever they want AKSHULLY". By the way, their husband's bodies and long-term physical health...not affected.

So you simply don't care about the impact on other women as you seek to enable men?

Good to know.

Incidentally 'I've been raped... more times than I can count' with the subtext of 'and I still don't care so why should any other woman'?

These are not healthy boundaries. In any way.

Your desire for men to use women's spaces freely also involves a desire to see other non consenting women's boundaries broken. For men.

Men in frocks are men.

Always were,always will be.

Find some black trans women. Ask them what they think.

id sooner ask the black women of lipstick alley what they think rather than yet more men

Biology, biology, biology yawn. It's 2024. We've found ways around the limitations of our biology in all sorts of ways. Going on about it is just regressive and boring.

More of a lurker than a speaker on this excellent board but this has to be one of the most offensive, privileged things I've read in a long time.

I think the pp is identifying as a Ln early 20s uni student but give it 5-10 years, if they can indeed get pregnant in their 40s, and they'll come around. I know most women don't really experience the patriarchy until they become a mother. The stats do show pretty much equality if not better outcomes for women until parenthood.

You lot are obsessed with women's fear.

Who is "you lot"?

Trans women are women.

A "trans woman" is literally any male person who declares themselves to be a woman. That magical thinking might be enough for you, but I'm sure you can understand that it isn't for everyone.

Sorry but this makes not sense to me. The world where people are literally making up gender that they see fit is fine - it's everyone's planet. But in a conversation where the question is about Trans people in women's bathroom. The governments of several countries have adopted the use of a 'cis' prefix to make a distinction between that and trans. If your opinion is that you are genderless - good for you.

If I know you have a penis, to me you are a man or male. To me, if I know you have a vagina, you are a woman or female. You can call yourself whatever you want. If you were born without any reproductive organs at all or you were born with both male and female reproductive organs -- I'll let the medical community tell me the correct scientific term.

At the end of the day, if you don't have a vagina or used to have a penis and are under the age of majority and not accompanied by your mother -- you should NOT be using a women's toilet.

And as far as giving consent, last time I checked NONE of us gave our consent to be born, or to be called human, or to be called the nationality we are. For many reasons we categorise and define people. Its not always to be perfectly categorised as we cannot be. If you take a Canadian who is from the Ojibwe First Nation with DNA that is also British and Irish - what is the correct term for them "any other race"? Mixed race? If people make up the term we cannot produce meaningful statistics.

And before you get angry remember that I am an adult woman and female who is entitled to my views and my opinions.

I remember PP82 from another thread, I think.

Sorry but this makes not sense to me.

I'm afraid I can't help you with that.