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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag

289 replies

PersephoneSeethes · 15/02/2024 18:31

I saw it this afternoon on Twitter and read the article with utter horror.

I was hoping it would be uplifting stories about people being accepted and living full lives

John Lewis and Waitrose are seemingly actively promoting and policing
pronoun usage by colleagues, Stasi-style. This seems like it is a court case, a-la-Forstater, waiting to happen.

They have an article about 'raising non-binary and transgender children', not from an information position in case Partners come across such families in their stores, but with a heavy activist slant.

I think I have finally been pushed to the edge with this beloved company. I can no longer shop with them, and I shop at Waitrose every week for our main shop, have done for over a decade.

This is a real gut punch because I believe in what Waitrose does, or used to do: they pay their farmers better, their animal welfare is better, their shops don't have the bright lights and loud noises that set off my migraines and irritate family members autistic temperaments. But as someone who grew up a tomboy, and would have been thrown under the gender bus by Stonewall and all the other organisations if I had been a child today, I can't stand by and accept all this nonsense.

OP posts:
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ImARubbishNickKnowles · 15/02/2024 18:43

https://twitter.com/legalfeminist/status/1758179493225582661?t=rdJn4N20JCPUAe0Em4opwQ&s=19

Legal Feminist had a few questions as well.

JulesJules · 15/02/2024 18:45

It is absolutely horrific, isn't it. I don't understand how organisations can become so completely captured - is there really NO-ONE at a high level or in their legal dept saying "Hang on a minute.... is this really what we're saying?"

JulesJules · 15/02/2024 18:46

Legal Feminist is on it (see twitter)

Hepwo · 15/02/2024 18:51

Terrible timing.

I don't think they have any idea that attempts to impose these ideas on staff are inappropriate.

DontStopMe · 15/02/2024 19:18

Hmmm. I had a Christmas job with John Lewis, and didn't feel I had anything like this 'imposed' on me.
Yes, there were trans staff members, but no one ever asked me my pronouns, or told me theirs. I didn't see any trans staff in the toilets and very few people actually got changed on site.
I also noted that the personal information they record for staff includes Sex as well as Gender Identity. You can select N/A for Gender Identity to say "you do not identify within this category".

Hepwo · 15/02/2024 19:21

I think that magazine mail out was very recent @DontStopMe

lonelywater · 15/02/2024 19:32

why do these outfits act like it's still 2015? You have to be deliberately sticking your fingers in your ears whilst going "La La La" to not realise the shit is hitting the fan on an almost daily basis right now. weird.

DontStopMe · 15/02/2024 19:32

Fair enough @Hepwo, it looks like it has come out since I left, and it does look pretty horrific. I didn't receive any staff magazines while I was there.

JulesJules · 15/02/2024 19:45

DontStopMe · 15/02/2024 19:18

Hmmm. I had a Christmas job with John Lewis, and didn't feel I had anything like this 'imposed' on me.
Yes, there were trans staff members, but no one ever asked me my pronouns, or told me theirs. I didn't see any trans staff in the toilets and very few people actually got changed on site.
I also noted that the personal information they record for staff includes Sex as well as Gender Identity. You can select N/A for Gender Identity to say "you do not identify within this category".

That option (n/a for gender identity) was only added reluctantly last year after complaints from staff

duc748 · 15/02/2024 20:04

Hepwo · 15/02/2024 19:21

I think that magazine mail out was very recent @DontStopMe

Yes. Zooming in on that magazine front cover, it says, Issue 1, February 2024.

HagoftheNorth · 15/02/2024 20:06

This is what happens when the algorithm notices the brand name, but not the content!

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag
HagoftheNorth · 15/02/2024 20:09

And yes, I will no longer be doing my weekly shop at Waitrose, and my cooker replacement won’t come from John Lewis. Really surprised that Waitrose thinks that middle-aged women is a demographic they can afford to piss off!

Teentaxidriver · 15/02/2024 20:09

Boycott. Buggeration. I do 75% of my shopping in Waitrose and JL, but I won't fund the madness.

DontStopMe · 15/02/2024 20:13

Thanks, @JulesJules , there did seem to be lots of decent people working in the store, more strength to them.

AvacadoFieldsForever · 15/02/2024 20:16

DontStopMe · 15/02/2024 19:18

Hmmm. I had a Christmas job with John Lewis, and didn't feel I had anything like this 'imposed' on me.
Yes, there were trans staff members, but no one ever asked me my pronouns, or told me theirs. I didn't see any trans staff in the toilets and very few people actually got changed on site.
I also noted that the personal information they record for staff includes Sex as well as Gender Identity. You can select N/A for Gender Identity to say "you do not identify within this category".

This is great and much more in line with what I’d expect day to day. People do tend to muddle through and get on with things.

But I strongly oppose being pushed into silence and compliance (and threatened with disciplinary proceedings for whistleblowing) especially with situations like this when they’ve clearly not thought things through.

PronounssheRa · 15/02/2024 20:17

I fear for the future of JL, its badly lost its way. It needs to go back to what it did best, retail, & customer service.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/02/2024 20:19

It's unbelievable that John Lewis has outsourced it's policies to a random group of staff with evidently no legal qualifications & no understanding of safeguarding children, child psychology and development. Despite this in the name of John Lewis they're lecturing staff with dangerous advice about parenting, lecturing women staff about the requirement for them to share changing rooms, toilets etc with men, doling out hazardous "advice" about the use of breast binders for children and a host of other matters.

The overreach of adherents to this ideology & John Lewis is extreme - and the casualties will be mainly children and women.

YourWinter · 15/02/2024 20:30

It’s a couple of years since I reached retirement age and left Waitrose, after just four years part-time, but during which the current Chairman was appointed and the Partnership began its inexorable descent. I wasn’t there in the days of plenty, but I have friends who’ve been there over 20 years. It has definitely not changed for the better.

I was in a branch of 100 or so staff, mainly part time, mainly women. To my knowledge nobody outside the bakery area would have known that the following week their married male colleague, with a teenage daughter, would henceforth wear a uniform skirt and tights, and would be using the women’s toilets and changing room (lockers in one area, door to the toilet cubicles and shower).

Plenty of students came in for an evening shift after a day at college, and changed before going to the shop floor. The toilets were far too narrow for an average woman to comfortably change, most just used their locker door for modesty. This person took a lot longer than HE needed to, powdering his nose and combing his hair. I didn’t have to change at work and wasn’t directly embarrassed by his presence, but in slightly aghast conversation with other colleagues it was clear that it was not to be challenged.

I don’t know what could have been said, and I’m glad I’m no longer there. I would definitely have refused to wear a pronoun badge. JLP are fast going down the pan, and seem bent on self destruction.

SoupDragonsFriend · 15/02/2024 20:31

I've just skim read the James Esses piece. Another customer lost. My weekly shop at Waitrose and occasional online purchases at John Lewes have bitten the dust.

HagoftheNorth · 15/02/2024 20:44

Winter, that’s awful. Hardly unique I know, but the assumption that it’s acceptable to serve up unconsenting women’s bodies because reasons is utterly contemptible. I really hope someone takes this on legally (spade at the ready!)

Villagetoraiseachild · 15/02/2024 20:52

They seem to be making a series of decisions that are alienating their core demographic. They are sorely in need of clued up and sensible leadership.
Let's hope for everyone's sake they get it soon.

Hepwo · 15/02/2024 21:21

duc748 · 15/02/2024 20:04

Yes. Zooming in on that magazine front cover, it says, Issue 1, February 2024.

Edited

Issue 1

Crickey, I wonder what the next issue will have to say?

Let's suggest some cover banners.

"Announcing a new head of retail operations"

"Some useful employment law updates"

TrainedByCatsToBeScathing · 15/02/2024 21:37

Feel so sorry for employees, it’s no wonder employees in my local Waitrose all seem flat and fed up right now

theilltemperedclavecinist · 15/02/2024 22:00

YourWinter · 15/02/2024 20:30

It’s a couple of years since I reached retirement age and left Waitrose, after just four years part-time, but during which the current Chairman was appointed and the Partnership began its inexorable descent. I wasn’t there in the days of plenty, but I have friends who’ve been there over 20 years. It has definitely not changed for the better.

I was in a branch of 100 or so staff, mainly part time, mainly women. To my knowledge nobody outside the bakery area would have known that the following week their married male colleague, with a teenage daughter, would henceforth wear a uniform skirt and tights, and would be using the women’s toilets and changing room (lockers in one area, door to the toilet cubicles and shower).

Plenty of students came in for an evening shift after a day at college, and changed before going to the shop floor. The toilets were far too narrow for an average woman to comfortably change, most just used their locker door for modesty. This person took a lot longer than HE needed to, powdering his nose and combing his hair. I didn’t have to change at work and wasn’t directly embarrassed by his presence, but in slightly aghast conversation with other colleagues it was clear that it was not to be challenged.

I don’t know what could have been said, and I’m glad I’m no longer there. I would definitely have refused to wear a pronoun badge. JLP are fast going down the pan, and seem bent on self destruction.

Edited

Are they unionised? Posters on the 'toilets' thread are ruing the lack of case law. Maybe the Waitrose ladies would like to make some...