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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag

289 replies

PersephoneSeethes · 15/02/2024 18:31

I saw it this afternoon on Twitter and read the article with utter horror.

I was hoping it would be uplifting stories about people being accepted and living full lives

John Lewis and Waitrose are seemingly actively promoting and policing
pronoun usage by colleagues, Stasi-style. This seems like it is a court case, a-la-Forstater, waiting to happen.

They have an article about 'raising non-binary and transgender children', not from an information position in case Partners come across such families in their stores, but with a heavy activist slant.

I think I have finally been pushed to the edge with this beloved company. I can no longer shop with them, and I shop at Waitrose every week for our main shop, have done for over a decade.

This is a real gut punch because I believe in what Waitrose does, or used to do: they pay their farmers better, their animal welfare is better, their shops don't have the bright lights and loud noises that set off my migraines and irritate family members autistic temperaments. But as someone who grew up a tomboy, and would have been thrown under the gender bus by Stonewall and all the other organisations if I had been a child today, I can't stand by and accept all this nonsense.

OP posts:
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Rightsraptor · 17/02/2024 13:06

Ruby is in Brighton.

If I were the sort of person who says "just sayin'" I'd say that now.

OnceinaMinion · 17/02/2024 14:15

@Boiledbeetle the pic in the magazine is tame (even though they have a whip?). There’s lots of kink pics, bondage and worse!

Cancelledcurio · 17/02/2024 14:33

Manky and seedy. Aw well - go woke , go broke. Can't afford Waitrose. Unlike The Body Shop who I did use until they slagged of JK, hiked their prizes up and their aggressive hassling in the shop. Would use use JL at Christmas or for wedding presents, etc Not any more

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 14:43

OnceinaMinion · 17/02/2024 14:15

@Boiledbeetle the pic in the magazine is tame (even though they have a whip?). There’s lots of kink pics, bondage and worse!

sad see no evil GIF

I'll pass!

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 15:01

Next we have the much more reasonable (!) mother,but not female, they/them Grey who had difficulties accepting the fact they birthed a child despite being a they and not a female.

I apologise for the above gibberish!

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag
MatchingBedding · 17/02/2024 15:19

It really is a load of old toilet isn’t it? They always look like this. If someone read Greys bio out to me I could have painted you a word picture of Grey Phoenix and it would have looked just like Grey Phoenix. When Grey was having pansexual sex with a man did they not bother to take precautions because They is not a female?

duc748 · 17/02/2024 15:22

This reply has been deleted

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/02/2024 15:27

That poor women - and the child caught up in all this. People with such fragile mental health that they deny biological reality need support and therapy. It feels almost abusive for JL to give them a platform like this - a real abdication of employer welfare responsibilities on their part.

CrossPurposes · 17/02/2024 15:34

I'm not expecting an answer that makes sense but how can one be trans and non-binary?

PersephoneSeethes · 17/02/2024 16:03

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/02/2024 15:27

That poor women - and the child caught up in all this. People with such fragile mental health that they deny biological reality need support and therapy. It feels almost abusive for JL to give them a platform like this - a real abdication of employer welfare responsibilities on their part.

Edited

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 16:06

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/02/2024 15:27

That poor women - and the child caught up in all this. People with such fragile mental health that they deny biological reality need support and therapy. It feels almost abusive for JL to give them a platform like this - a real abdication of employer welfare responsibilities on their part.

Edited

20 years ago had Grey declared the above bilge I'm fairly sure there would have been some sort of social services intervention to check on the welfare of the child.

SomeCatFromJapan · 17/02/2024 16:29

I was about to make a very expensive purchase of a dining table and benches from JL but thanks to this nonsense I've looked elsewhere, and to my surprise found a lovely real wood set in Ikea and saved myself over a grand. Thanks I guess JL.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/02/2024 16:30

I'm not expecting an answer that makes sense but how can one be trans and non-binary?

I share your facepalming but from what I've seen it seems to mean someone who has a greater degree of opposite sex identity than their own sex.

Justme56 · 17/02/2024 16:31

I fear Grey probably got swept along with the online crowd (notice her hobbies) where you can be anyone you want (apart from a boring ‘cis’ woman). I don’t think Grey has any idea how silly her comments sound to those based in reality, because she has been mixing with people who will say exactly the same and organisations like JL have validated it. If Grey had said she believes the earth is flat, or that we are living with aliens would JL have endorsed it I think not. For some reason being in the queer community somehow lets a person off.

SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 16:33

Just come back from not doing my weekly Waitrose shop - treated myself to a wholefood takeaway from a more expensive but local small business for tonight's supper. Will sort out a temporary Ocado order this evening while I have a rethink about altering my shopping/cooking/meal plans for the future.

It feels to me like we are treading a very fine line between challenging what JL has done that is so inappropriate... misleading... unprofessional... irresponsible... alongside commenting on individuals who've had their portraits taken and biographic info published thinking, no doubt, that they were doing something good and positive about themselves and for other people. I'm worried about them even if their behaviour or views don't tally with mine. I'm sure these comments will be being read and discussed.

I've just gone in search of the photos that are part of the London JL exhibition to check something before writing more and I can't find them. I think they are being taken down. Is JL having a re-think?

Villagetoraiseachild · 17/02/2024 16:36

I am confused. Grey has three different gender identities and wearing dungarees with dinosaurs pattern. Maybe Grey has an inner terf struggling to break free.
I agree with pp that it is discomforting that JL considers it wise and appropriate to platform their partners in this way. It feels grubbily exploitative and I really hope none of those profiled experience anything negative professionally or personally as a result.

Runningwildish · 17/02/2024 16:37

I have deleted the JL and Waitrose apps, but I'm having second thoughts about shopping in store, their animal welfare is the best there is with onsite abattoirs etc. and I'm sure that their pig farmers know what sex a hog and a sow are. So I think I'll still get my meat there .

RebelliousCow · 17/02/2024 16:46

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RebelliousCow · 17/02/2024 16:51

SomeCatFromJapan · 17/02/2024 16:29

I was about to make a very expensive purchase of a dining table and benches from JL but thanks to this nonsense I've looked elsewhere, and to my surprise found a lovely real wood set in Ikea and saved myself over a grand. Thanks I guess JL.

Ikea are also fully on board with the whole LGBTQ+/Transphobia/Pride thing. They serve rainbow cakes in their restaurants and have their own dedicated LGBTQ+ phone help line. They are partnered with Stonewall and 'Global Butterflies'.

Good luck finding any major buisness which is also not in at least knee deep

SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 16:53

SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 16:33

Just come back from not doing my weekly Waitrose shop - treated myself to a wholefood takeaway from a more expensive but local small business for tonight's supper. Will sort out a temporary Ocado order this evening while I have a rethink about altering my shopping/cooking/meal plans for the future.

It feels to me like we are treading a very fine line between challenging what JL has done that is so inappropriate... misleading... unprofessional... irresponsible... alongside commenting on individuals who've had their portraits taken and biographic info published thinking, no doubt, that they were doing something good and positive about themselves and for other people. I'm worried about them even if their behaviour or views don't tally with mine. I'm sure these comments will be being read and discussed.

I've just gone in search of the photos that are part of the London JL exhibition to check something before writing more and I can't find them. I think they are being taken down. Is JL having a re-think?

The management's and participants' comments seem to have gone as well. I didn't save the exact quote before but I hope that, while JL et al are reconsidering their project, they think very carefully about not rushing into Prof Susan Sanders'(?) - apologies if I'm remembering the name incorrectly - suggestion about it being a good idea for the photo exhibition to be shown in schools. I would have quoted correctly had I been able to find the exact words.

I'm sure that some of the photos and text are fine but some.... er...

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 17:01

https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1758880561488167412?s=19

"Breaking: Internal staff memo from Executive Director @JohnLewisRetail.
Far from acknowledging significant failures, they accuse us of “misrepresenting” them.
They state their “wellbeing team…are on hand to support Partners who have been affected by the coverage”.
Disgrace."

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag
Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag
SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 17:01

RebelliousCow · 17/02/2024 16:51

Ikea are also fully on board with the whole LGBTQ+/Transphobia/Pride thing. They serve rainbow cakes in their restaurants and have their own dedicated LGBTQ+ phone help line. They are partnered with Stonewall and 'Global Butterflies'.

Good luck finding any major buisness which is also not in at least knee deep

Edited

Oh well, no more Billy bookshelves then. I'm going to have to learn how to build my own when I move house which will be no bad thing.

What on earth is their dedicated phone line for?

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 17/02/2024 17:12

The really annoying thing is how late to the party they are. Lots of organisations had made the same sort of statements several years ago ( okay, not whip and dummy lady) , and many have been toning it down when they saw that the majority of their customers were not on the same page, to the point of losing business.

Even The NHS and some government departments are having second thoughts, but JLP decide that this is the moment to unsettle their already fearful staff with this positioning statement. Sort of ‘no bonus, more redundancies looming….but some of your colleagues are into wearing harnesses and exciting outfits, so rejoice’.

It doesn’t give much confidence in their strategic planning.

SomeCatFromJapan · 17/02/2024 17:24

@RebelliousCow I'm still a grand up, happily.

@Runningwildish I order from an organic farm, I appreciate that isn't quite as convenient for everyone though. I tend to buy a lot of mince/stewing cuts that don't mind being frozen for a while.