Sunak telling Robin White that biological sex is important live on GB news

[fromorbit]

'Particularly when it comes to questions around women's safety and health, biological sex is important.' Parents need to be involved in schools.

Rishi Sunak is asked 'why should LGBT people vote Conservative?'
GB News forum footage here:
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

I haven't switched from anything. Stop talking to me as if this is a court of law and you are cross examining a witness. It's not a good way to manage a debate.
…
Telling the parents isn't always the best thing. Neither is not telling them. We shouldn't be pushing for a blanket approach as there could be unintended consequences.

Interesting how easy it is to recognise some writing styles for the imperatives and forced teaming before even seeing the name.

Exactly! They are still "teaching about gender identity" though. If it were banned, they wouldn't be able to discuss it at all.

Don't accuse me of being a predator thanks. That's very offensive and unnecessary. Reported.

What year do you teach?

I’m secondary trained, so 11-18. I’ve been a form tutor in all years including Y12/13. Why do you ask?

AdamRyan · 15/02/2024 19:49
Only the parents know their own situation, I think its not really anyone's business how parents choose to handle their child's identity issues.

Then today:
Imagine a year 8 girl from a family background you know well, know she isn't being mistreated at home, know she's part of a bigger "SJW" crowd at school who are all non binary. If she says she wants teachers to use "they/them" pronouns. The teacher decides to leave her to it for a couple of weeks, in which time she drops it.

The parents are the ones who know their situation the best and know what is best for their child. But a teacher who thinks they know what's best for the child won't tell the parents if the child takes on a new identity at school.

No contradictions there at all...

Maybe society should get it together and safeguard children better

If it’s in schools then tell dc you can’t change sex, that’s a biological fact. People look and dress differently this might be known as ‘gender’ and is a range

Sex is fixed and unchanging and gender is a range and we reject stereotypes

I’d be ok with that.

As an ex teacher, if a pupil wanted to keep something so significant ( or anything) from the parents that would definitely be a red flag for a safeguarding issue.

My daughter currently teaches 11- 18 and one of her training schools had a high proportion of girls from chaotic or vulnerable backgrounds. Some of the girls who attended the lunchtime LGBTQ+ club were, indeed, already on the safeguarding radar. A child requesting pronouns in itself is a safeguarding alert - not because 'being trans' makes one more vulnerable - but because already vulnerable pupils are more likley to adopt trans identities, as well as to be self harming, having eating disorders, developing tics or Tourette's.

The job of a teacher is not to insert themselves in between a child and a parent. That is not the responsibility of a teacher.

Cannot see what in this post = "predator" as per the accusation and supposed reporting to MNHQ. Hope MN will be sensible here.

Life is not black and white. Seeking "no contradictions" is a hiding to nothing. We are humans, not computers.

I'm assuming people have decided maybe my points about gender identity aren't so ridiculous after all so have moved on to trying to "gotcha" me on safeguarding. It's pretty boring to be honest.

Go and read about where the term "forced teaming" originated and what it means and you'll understand.

Its offensive and I take it as a personal attack.

No I'm good ta. I do understand things.

I'm not trying to 'gotcha' you on anything. I was just pointing out your apparently contradictory and inconsistent views.

I can't even remember what your points are about gender identity. Did you have any?

Teachers should not be compelled to use pronouns in school. This simply nurtures false beliefs in children - and that is deeply irresponsible and I'd go so far to consider it in itself as a safeguarding issue.

Children should have it explained ( age appropriate) that there is a theory which is widely propogated on social media called 'Gender Identity theory' but that it is a new idea and most people don't subscribe to it. They should have it explained where this theory can lead if people get caught up in it. Transsexuality can be looked at ( for older pupils). That it exists and that some people have radical surgeries etc.

Then the discussion can move into discussing what 'gender' is and the stereotypes associated with it. It can be explained that many young gay people can often feel like they don't conform to many of the stereotypes and this can be confusing for them; but that nobody should feel the need to conform to something they are not.

This would then lead on to a discussion of sex, sex based differences and the realities of biology.

Or something like that.......

Feel free to correct me. Imagine a year 8 girl from a family background you know well, know she isn't being mistreated at home, know she's part of a bigger "SJW" crowd at school who are all non binary. If she says she wants teachers to use "they/them" pronouns. The teacher decides to leave her to it for a couple of weeks, in which time she drops it.

You see if this situation didn’t impact on anyone else at all and it was just kids making up shit in the playground then it probably wouldn’t matter at all. But as it stands all the teachers and all the other pupils will be obligated to pander to this child’s 2 week gender journey through fear that they will be sacked or sanctioned or worse that the child will kill themselves if they are not “affirmed” in their new “gender”. All of those children also pressurised to lie because how on earth do these things stay secret anyway.

Also the stats that are often used to demand affirmation (something like 50% of trans attempting suicide) should be enough to trigger the parents being informed pdq so the child can be put on suicide watch.

Yes that stuff about gender identity was exactly what I was referred to by covering it in schools. It feels like the only way out is to provide factual education, not ignore it, or present it as a truth.

Pronouns, i don't know. I just don't think they are a big deal and worry that banning them will make it a big deal because teenagers love to rebel. Probably all the teachers doing the whole my name is x and my Pronouns are y/z would do more to put the kids off than anything else!

Pronouns, i don't know. I just don't think they are a big deal and worry that banning them will make it a big deal because teenagers love to rebel. Probably all the teachers doing the whole my name is x and my Pronouns are y/z would do more to put the kids off than anything else!

How do you think this would make the gender critical children feel? And would you force the gender critical teachers to go along with this as well even if they thought it was harmful?

And do you really think that it would put the kids off? It might if it was a strict older teacher who the kids didn't like anyway, but what if it was a really popular younger teacher doing it?

teenagers love to rebel.

Some do, some don't.

Pff. We'd just had several pages at attempts at 'Gotchas' OldCrone.

None of them were by you.

That accusation is pretty damn, just wow!

Quite, Red.

Yes, this is best viewed as a teen craze/fad that like any other needs to be kept in its place ( the yard/playground) and in proportion. How kids talk to each other and identify to each other is between them. None of it should change how teachers address their pupils. The teacher should be a consisitent and steady presence in the life of their pupils, and some should not be singled out for additional or unusual treatment ( unless they have identified special needs and a statement ect)

That's not true. There are a number of "blanket commandments" in safeguarding - especially "do not keep a child's secrets":
Always share your concerns, don't work alone, don't assume you know the whole story. The depending on the context is always there - at school level, on referral to SSD, at the investigation level if the referral meets the threshold and right up to court action

What we don't tell teachers is that there's "a context" for them to consider about gender questioning children. We tell teachers that they're part of a structured framework to protect children and that their role is to refer anything of concern to the DSL and then the DSL acts. Often with agonised discussions with SSD colleagues about backgrounds and thresholds - fully aware that a failure to intervene can lead to a child being harmed or an over zealous referral can alienate parents .

My comments are not a "gotcha" as you suggested upthread. They're an informed comment based on years of safeguarding in schools & local authorities to someone telling posters that in safeguarding "I think blanket commandments are potentially dangerous" or when talking about a year 8 girl wanting to change pronouns "The teacher decides to leave her to it for a couple of weeks, in which time she drops it".

Safeguarding in schools is a statutory duty with legal requirements and processes aimed at ensuing the safety of all children.

I think it's perfectly obvious to most people, MrsOverton, that you are an expert in child safeguarding.

Your posts are always comprehensively well informed.

And yes, Adam is completely inconsistent.

It's nuanced, dependent on context, and teachers should consider and think about specific cases over days or weeks, but they also don't have the time or money to do anything about it and we shouldn't expect them to.

What parents decide for their children is no one's business, whilst simultaneously teachers know enough about the parents attitude to accurately judge whether to involve them.

And it's best to leave a child to get on with it for a couple of weeks, because it's trivial, but at the same time, you have to keep it secret from the parents, in case they go off alarming because it's so significant.

The goalposts of trans ideology shift at such a breakneck speed, you get whiplash.

"Gender Identity and Pronouns in schools are just finnnneeee in schools and I don't see a problem with it and withholding this information from parents because I don't understand safeguarding and the basic underpining of safeguarding principles"

Again, exactly. How kids talk to each other and identify to each other is between them. I think if a teacher overhears they might not decide that's a safeguarding issue

I was not referring to you. I was referring to oldcrone who two days ago demanded I spelt out exactly what I meant by "gender identity" and now has moved on to asking exactly what I mean by safeguarding.
It is not a "debate" when people ask questions with the intent to disprove the answer. It's actually pretty rude when posters spent several pages saying I don't engage.

I'd like to know, too.

Ronson's a creepy little fecker IMO.