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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GC Ultra / GC Lite?

439 replies

Catsanfan · 11/02/2024 09:13

Hi all

I keep seeing these used on X. I'm not totally sure what they mean. Is it in a nutshell GC Ultra = Posie Parker GC Lite = people who think Debbie Haytons a decent bloke.

Or am I totally on the wrong page? So much terminology these days!

TIA

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Woman2023 · 12/02/2024 07:27

If wearing the clothes isn't sexy for autogynephiles, then they can just not do it.

I'd rather they'd keep wearing clothes than not! Grin

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 07:27

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2024 07:07

Well you can wear what clothes you like.

That's a bit different to donning a pair of fake tits too and expecting everyone to treat you along the lines of gendered stereotypes with it and campaiging for mixed sex toilets.

If you can't see the difference between the likes of David Bowie and Harry Styles compared to DH, I really can't help you.

This isn't rocket science. Don't try to pretend it is.

Edited

Again not engaging with what some of us are trying to raise.

We're not talking about pretending they're women or using women's spaces here.

We're talking about: wear what you want.
But for some men what they want is to wear normal women's clothes because they're agp.

Some posters argue agp shouldn't be in schools or the workplace in their fetish gear.
But when their fetish gear is normal women's clothes and they don't tell you they're agp, it's just their 'identiy' what do you do?

We don't have the culture or social norms to fall back on because we're all: wear what you want, and EA protects their right under gender reassignment.
So we're stuck with these undeclared agp narcissistic men in their fetish gear?

No it's not rocket science. But it is interesting how many people are avoiding the problem just reverting to well worn statements and indignance that anyone still has questions.

I think this is because there isn't an obvious solution here.

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2024 07:36

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 07:27

Again not engaging with what some of us are trying to raise.

We're not talking about pretending they're women or using women's spaces here.

We're talking about: wear what you want.
But for some men what they want is to wear normal women's clothes because they're agp.

Some posters argue agp shouldn't be in schools or the workplace in their fetish gear.
But when their fetish gear is normal women's clothes and they don't tell you they're agp, it's just their 'identiy' what do you do?

We don't have the culture or social norms to fall back on because we're all: wear what you want, and EA protects their right under gender reassignment.
So we're stuck with these undeclared agp narcissistic men in their fetish gear?

No it's not rocket science. But it is interesting how many people are avoiding the problem just reverting to well worn statements and indignance that anyone still has questions.

I think this is because there isn't an obvious solution here.

Oh I think I am engaging. It's you who is trying to complicate matters.

It's not appropriate for women to wear certain clothes in certain situations and if they do, eye brows would be raised and you'd possibly get hauled in by a manager. We have dress codes based on safety at work. We wouldn't wear a t-shirt with offensive slogans or pictures of giant pensises in public unless in certain social settings for good reasons.

If they don't want to wear the dress without the fake tits it's telling you something too.

It's not hard to grasp this.

You are trying to make out it's some kind of massive complex drama.

Do not try and make out I'm failing to engage. I am engaging. I just think you are talking out your arse.

RethinkingLife · 12/02/2024 07:52

Helleofabore · 11/02/2024 23:42

And people should be free to wear their dog play fetish outfits in public. And their ‘little’ fetish oufits.

Because they are not having sex right at that time. It is all good.

However, fortunately it seems the infamous library ST session photographs with children climbing on the storyteller who is clearly aroused, that wouldn't be OK. Except it plainly was acceptable to some adults. The library professionals and the parents who consented to the participation of their child/children.

The situation is certainly perplexing. It gives me ghastly memories of the parents trapped in their own progressiveness in that kindergarten piece.

www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html

For those of us old-fashioned adults with an interest in safeguarding, are we expected to be able to anticipate when somebody with a paraphilia might experience it as exciting episodically or pretty much most of the time?

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2024 08:02

Would a woman decide, hey I'm going to work today as a teacher. I'm going to turn up wearing nothing but my bikini and I think this is TOTALLY fine?

Would she turn up in the office wearing a t-shirt with a penis on it saying 'all dicks are fair game'?

If the answer is no, then I'm sorry but men can cope with not wearing fake tits on a daily basis.

They can crack on with the female clothing appropriate for the situation like women though. And use the gents.

God some people use some utterly disengenous arguements to try and make out this is harder than it is.

I am starting to fail to see them as good faith tbh.

Woman2023 · 12/02/2024 08:03

"It's not appropriate for women to wear certain clothes in certain situations and if they do, eye brows would be raised and you'd possibly get hauled in by a manager. We have dress codes based on safety at work. We wouldn't wear a t-shirt with offensive slogans or pictures of giant pensises in public unless in certain social settings for good reasons.

If they don't want to wear the dress without the fake tits it's telling you something too."

The dress code at the school I worked at included no 'spaghetti strap' tops and no see through blouses. Men were expected to wear ties. Dress codes are normal in school, and any reasonable adult would comply with them.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:06

I just think you are talking out your arse righto @RedToothBrush thanks for that.

Why are you being so rude?

I actually agree with many of the positions here and am genuinely sharing complexities that I feel haven't been addressed. I've laid them out and I'm up for unpacking them with those interested in doing so with the aim of more clarity.

It was suggested over the weekend that MN fwr is a good place to sharpen thinking and argument. You however seem to only want to lay out your well worn argument repeatedly and will only accept applause and revert to insults to those of us saying, yes but...??

I'll ignore your unnecessary insults and engage with anyone who wants to discuss the points I'm trying to think through.

Good day.

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2024 08:10

Woman2023 · 12/02/2024 08:03

"It's not appropriate for women to wear certain clothes in certain situations and if they do, eye brows would be raised and you'd possibly get hauled in by a manager. We have dress codes based on safety at work. We wouldn't wear a t-shirt with offensive slogans or pictures of giant pensises in public unless in certain social settings for good reasons.

If they don't want to wear the dress without the fake tits it's telling you something too."

The dress code at the school I worked at included no 'spaghetti strap' tops and no see through blouses. Men were expected to wear ties. Dress codes are normal in school, and any reasonable adult would comply with them.

Indeed. Key word.

Reasonable.

Narcissists aren't reasonable and seek out special treatment and status.

I wish some people would keep paying attention rather than defaulting to this idea that they are being unreasonable for expecting others to show respect for them too.

Respect works in both directions. Any solution that doesn't recognise this, isn't a solution.

And the problem with the genderists is 'mission creep'. The GRA started it and it's been push push push on that.

This idea of a 'settlement' of accepting agp as ok, isn't ok. It's just another part of mission creep. It's dishonest. And it won't stop

Say no to narcissistic behaviour. It's not hard. It's not mean. It's not ultra. It's not extreme. It's just the word no.

The trouble is a generation who have grown up not hearing the word and are having a tantrum about it.

The answer is still no.

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2024 08:12

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:06

I just think you are talking out your arse righto @RedToothBrush thanks for that.

Why are you being so rude?

I actually agree with many of the positions here and am genuinely sharing complexities that I feel haven't been addressed. I've laid them out and I'm up for unpacking them with those interested in doing so with the aim of more clarity.

It was suggested over the weekend that MN fwr is a good place to sharpen thinking and argument. You however seem to only want to lay out your well worn argument repeatedly and will only accept applause and revert to insults to those of us saying, yes but...??

I'll ignore your unnecessary insults and engage with anyone who wants to discuss the points I'm trying to think through.

Good day.

You told me I wasn't engaging! Didn't you think that was rude?

I was engaging. You just didn't like what I was saying.

Jog on.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:13

You can't have dress codes which prevent men who say their gender identity makes them want to wear the women's code.
The EA protects them.

Some men will wear perfectly normal women's clothes as part of their agp.
I work with one.

He doesn't say he's agp though.

This is an issue if the argument that any man involving women in their fetish is unacceptable.

We've accepted transvestitism at work. It's going to be hard to turn that around.

Even once we've won the right to call them men and ban them from women's spaces. We're left with the thrill from wearing women's clothes.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:14

I am good faith @RedToothBrush

I just seem to be really annoying you by not being told it's not a issue and then shutting up.

Helleofabore · 12/02/2024 08:15

I can see parts of what Malaga is saying. The very brief version is: a male can wear anything they want and we have to view it as non sexual, unless we know it is sexual.

I also think that if you are wearing fake breasts or have hormonally / surgically enhanced breasts, it is a very good indicator that there is a sexual element to that wearing women’s clothes.

Hence why I brought in other paraphilias.

Is it ok for someone to wear their baby fetish gear if they are not actively aroused at that time?

Is it ok for someone to wear their dog outfit if they are not actively aroused at that time?

BDSM gear ?

Are people saying this isn’t a safeguarding issue because it is normal women’s wear these male people are wearing and not sexualised women’s wear?

Or is the issue that it all as ‘it is male sexuality so we cannot stop it anyway’ so therefore it is not a safeguarding issue in some people’s view?

There really is a deep discussion that needs to be had around this issue. Because that paraphilia seems to already have become acceptable enough for these male people to be allowed to continue teaching. Or it has now become indistinguishable due to the push for acceptance of male people wearing dresses.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:17

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2024 08:12

You told me I wasn't engaging! Didn't you think that was rude?

I was engaging. You just didn't like what I was saying.

Jog on.

Yes 'you are not engaging with the argument'

Is just the same as 'your talking out your arse:
And 'jog on'.

You seem very angry at me personally because I won't be told: we think this here. I've laid it out now piss off with your questions.

Interesting, given your personality type posts.

ResisterRex · 12/02/2024 08:18

Cancelledcurio · 12/02/2024 01:21

@ResisterRex exactly ! Imagine if this person was female ? Remember the female teacher in Scotland caught on Only Fans ? She was very quickly dismissed ( and quite rightly i.m.o. ) This is how we know sex can't be changed !! And neither does male priviledge !!! The safeguarding of children however , falls by the wayside , well because .... stunning and brave ....

I just looked this up. It made the New York Post!!

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:19

Helleofabore · 12/02/2024 08:15

I can see parts of what Malaga is saying. The very brief version is: a male can wear anything they want and we have to view it as non sexual, unless we know it is sexual.

I also think that if you are wearing fake breasts or have hormonally / surgically enhanced breasts, it is a very good indicator that there is a sexual element to that wearing women’s clothes.

Hence why I brought in other paraphilias.

Is it ok for someone to wear their baby fetish gear if they are not actively aroused at that time?

Is it ok for someone to wear their dog outfit if they are not actively aroused at that time?

BDSM gear ?

Are people saying this isn’t a safeguarding issue because it is normal women’s wear these male people are wearing and not sexualised women’s wear?

Or is the issue that it all as ‘it is male sexuality so we cannot stop it anyway’ so therefore it is not a safeguarding issue in some people’s view?

There really is a deep discussion that needs to be had around this issue. Because that paraphilia seems to already have become acceptable enough for these male people to be allowed to continue teaching. Or it has now become indistinguishable due to the push for acceptance of male people wearing dresses.

Or even: can we object to men having normal sized fake breasts at work?

If so how?

Woman2023 · 12/02/2024 08:22

Or even: can we object to men having normal sized fake breasts at work?

If so how?

Fuck me. Who knew that a few transsexuals being pandered to back in the 70s would lead to this question.

Woman2023 · 12/02/2024 08:28

Just as an example, the school I worked at had "no spaghetti strap tops" as part of its dress code. I'm sure "no fake breasts" could be added.

I do see the problem with protection from discrimination against people with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment because wearing fake breasts is precisely the kind of behaviour they do to show they are serious about "changing their gender".

How do we deal with this in school? I personally would start with insisting that men such as Hayton be spoken about as male at school and children are told that, as an absolute minimum, they can call him Mr and Sir if they want.

Helleofabore · 12/02/2024 08:32

Red your comment about flying monkeys was very timely. Thank you.

I saw Iseult using the term for what Glinner was doing in backing Stella and I didn’t remember the connection with narcism when I read it. I now think I see that Iseult was probably making that connection without saying so directly. It was a carefully worded tweet and I saw it was not an accusation as such towards Glinner although he took it that way. She pointed out that his behaviour was like a flying monkey iirc. It was very interesting and made me stop.

I do see the parallels to the topic under discussion that you are trying to highlight. I did wonder about what seemed to be the over reaction of JT and AD. You have, as usual, provided the clarity for that aspect. I think I recognised it but didn’t name it specifically. I am not great at picking narcissists.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:36

So even when we've won on sex spaces and pronouns the Equality Act will still protect Brian coming to work dressed as Brenda with normal sized fake tits and wearing normal women's clothes for kicks.

Is that ok? Or is it involving us in his fetish?

If it's not ok, how could we successfully object?

And if you think men won't do this once they can't use the ladies then I think you are naive about men's sexual fetishes and what they'll do.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:38

The EA has legalised transvestism at work.

This is a problem seperate from pronouns and sex spaces , and one I don't see an obvious solution for.

I'm confused about why people don't see that problem or want to discuss it.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:39

Woman2023 · 12/02/2024 08:22

Or even: can we object to men having normal sized fake breasts at work?

If so how?

Fuck me. Who knew that a few transsexuals being pandered to back in the 70s would lead to this question.

Indeed.

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:47

Woman2023 · 12/02/2024 08:28

Just as an example, the school I worked at had "no spaghetti strap tops" as part of its dress code. I'm sure "no fake breasts" could be added.

I do see the problem with protection from discrimination against people with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment because wearing fake breasts is precisely the kind of behaviour they do to show they are serious about "changing their gender".

How do we deal with this in school? I personally would start with insisting that men such as Hayton be spoken about as male at school and children are told that, as an absolute minimum, they can call him Mr and Sir if they want.

You could only say no fake breasts if you applied it equally to everyone. Women and men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Otherwise you'd be discriminatory. They'd sue you.

Unless you could argue there's a legitimate reason to treat women differently in this case?

I suppose in the case of reconstructive surgery following cancer could be argued for women.

But cosmetic breasts for women and men who've 'reasigned their gender' how would you argue that difference legally?

They'd try to out colleagues who'd had cosmetic breast surgery to make their case.

I see and know it's different. I want to know how this is legally and culturally argued against.

itsfinallytime · 12/02/2024 08:49

MalagaNights · 12/02/2024 08:38

The EA has legalised transvestism at work.

This is a problem seperate from pronouns and sex spaces , and one I don't see an obvious solution for.

I'm confused about why people don't see that problem or want to discuss it.

I think this is an interesting point actually. Men acting out fetishes at work might make women uncomfortable generally.

But I can't see how an argument to ban gender expression can really help us right now.

If we take on that fight as well as the fight for women's single sex spaces to be for females (by that I mean born not legal females), then it is surely just fuelling a this is an 'anti trans position' rather than a women's safety issue?

RethinkingLife · 12/02/2024 08:52

In case anyone finds it helpful, SO'M has published a clarification about clothes. It includes this:

People should be free to wear whatever clothes they want so long as it is within the bounds of decency.
…
When JK Rowling made her famous tweet I liked and shared it because I happily agreed with her. I had no idea that a large contingent of gender critical people didn’t actually agree with JK Rowling’s tweet. I did though. I thought it was a brilliant tweet because it was underpinned by the principles of liberal enlightenment, which i reckon are beneficial for society.

https://stellaomalley.substack.com/p/the-intricacies-of-sex-and-clothing?

Other matters aside, do we have general agreement on bounds of decency? Dress code in work. Lots of family sites have them (no inappropriate T-shirts, shoes must be worn etc.).

The intricacies of sex and clothing

My attempt to apologise, clarify and give some context to certain issues that have become very heightened....

https://stellaomalley.substack.com/p/the-intricacies-of-sex-and-clothing

Helleofabore · 12/02/2024 08:58

I think that it is not actually so confused on the breast issue.

A female will be having breast reconstruction to match an existing breast or an enlargement to existing female breast tissue. This is clearly definable and therefore not subject to the type of discrimination where it has to be ‘equally’ applied to male people.