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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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8
RethinkingLife · 09/02/2024 13:26

HelenDamnation1 · 09/02/2024 13:06

Sorry, but why on earth was my comment banned?
I was reporting on the fact that NHS MANDATORY EDI training breaks the law in insisting that we need to share our previously single sex loos etc with Transwomen.

Why was that banned? It is critical information.

You likely have an email about it and MN might well tell you why and if it was a particular term.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/02/2024 13:29

RethinkingLife · 09/02/2024 13:26

You likely have an email about it and MN might well tell you why and if it was a particular term.

Think you have to ask MNHQ - they don't seem to send out emails these days? But do ask as it's important to understand what language or opinions are not allowed and they're usually very clear when they respond.

SinnerBoy · 09/02/2024 13:43

Sign a pledge?

Did they have to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance to Stonewall, whilst saluting the Rainbow Flag before starting their shifts?

AlisonDonut · 09/02/2024 13:45

RethinkingLife · 09/02/2024 13:26

You likely have an email about it and MN might well tell you why and if it was a particular term.

No, they just delete these days, they don't tell you why.

AlisonDonut · 09/02/2024 13:47

IcakethereforeIam · 09/02/2024 13:17

The quote at the end, heartwarming

Speaking to the NHS press team, a staff nurse said, “sometimes a baby will have two mums and I’ve noticed that some parents haven’t always felt comfortable being open with all staff members. Once I saw a mum looking at my badge and after that she knew it was okay to just be herself.”

but i imagine it continuing, 'she only saw my badge briefly as i was flying about because we're short staffed so i couldn't speak to her, take her to the loo or give her the water she'd asked for shortly after arriving seven hours ago.'

This is what I don't understand.

If maternity unit staff were homophobic then surely the thing to do is to put a complaint in?

Gazing lovingly at a badge, whilst the badge wearer reads your mind...well, who has time for that in the NHS these days?

Diverze · 09/02/2024 13:48

I just read the report on a trust. I am quite shocked. To get points to be awarded bronze, silver or gold status the trust has to get over 50 percent of respondents confirming they have been asked their pronouns and sexuality and that no gendered language has been used.

I accept the idea that groups lobby for their own interests but it amazes me that in this scheme there is no wider acknowledgement of other needs within the cohort accessing the NHS: those with learning needs, those with disabilities, those with strongly held religious views, those with limited English. If you have achieved an NHS gold award for LGBT inclusion on this scheme, you have almost certainly been non- inclusive of those other groups.

NHS Rainbow badge scheme good news
RethinkingLife · 09/02/2024 13:52

If you have achieved an NHS gold award for LGBT inclusion on this scheme, you have almost certainly been non- inclusive of those other groups.

Wims, eh?!? When will we grasp that other groups don't count. They're not as real as the Untouchable Caste (what's the phrase Glinner uses to talk about the way priests used to be considered?) that is entitled to all things, everywhere, all at once?

GailBlancheViola · 09/02/2024 13:53

SinnerBoy · 09/02/2024 13:43

Sign a pledge?

Did they have to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance to Stonewall, whilst saluting the Rainbow Flag before starting their shifts?

I am sure that was next on the list of actions to be taken.

ScrollingLeaves · 09/02/2024 13:59

ArabellaScott · 09/02/2024 12:30

https://twitter.com/rainbownhsbadge

'NHS Rainbow Badge Project, Phase 2 run by@LGBTfdn

@stonewalluk

@LGBTSwitchboard

@LGBTConsortium

@ GLADDUK'

https://lgbt.foundation/help/nhs-rainbow-badge/

'Since 2018 over 150 NHS Trusts across England have launched Phase 1, and 50 NHS Trusts have completed Phase 2 of the programme. We are delighted to be supporting more Trusts through Phase 2 in 2023 and are pleased to see Trusts returning for reassessment. '

'Phase 2 is funded by NHS England and delivered by a collaborative partnership consisting of LGBT Foundation, Stonewall, LGBT Consortium, Switchboard, and GLADD.
It is an assessment and accreditation model aimed at supporting your NHS Trust to create an inclusive healthcare environment.
You will be assessed on:

  • Clinical service provision
  • Workforce inclusion
  • Leadership
  • Sexual Orientation, Gender, and Trans Status monitoring
  • Facilities
  • Engagement
You will receive a graded award reflecting your current LGBTQ+ inclusion work, either Bronze, Silver, or Gold, and a comprehensive feedback report and action plan, designed to help your Trust facilitate meaningful change and achieve the next grade. '

Another grift, innit.

A grift? Do you mean the NHS rainbow scheme has not really been pulled because it it is still there in another guise? Or, that the whole scheme was a grift before it was pulled? Other?

Sorry to be muddled Arabella as I can see your post is full of information.

Boiledbeetle · 09/02/2024 14:08

AlisonDonut · 09/02/2024 13:45

No, they just delete these days, they don't tell you why.

Unless you've been really naughty!

Then they call you into the headmistress' office!

Apparently! I mean personally I wouldn't know as I'm sooooo well behaved!

Chariothorses · 09/02/2024 14:17

This is exceedingly good news if true. A group I know has been raising concerns about specific safeguarding and legal protections being removed for some children linked to it, but all their NHS FOIs have been refused (can't be any clearer as mumsnet deleted my post last time I referred to it).

Does anyone have any independent confirmation of this?

nothingcomestonothing · 09/02/2024 14:26

Diverze · 09/02/2024 13:48

I just read the report on a trust. I am quite shocked. To get points to be awarded bronze, silver or gold status the trust has to get over 50 percent of respondents confirming they have been asked their pronouns and sexuality and that no gendered language has been used.

I accept the idea that groups lobby for their own interests but it amazes me that in this scheme there is no wider acknowledgement of other needs within the cohort accessing the NHS: those with learning needs, those with disabilities, those with strongly held religious views, those with limited English. If you have achieved an NHS gold award for LGBT inclusion on this scheme, you have almost certainly been non- inclusive of those other groups.

Not just non- inclusive, but actively discriminatory towards other groups - such as women, or people with religious beliefs.

See Annex B, which tells us all about how to make sure the transperson is happy, and gives not one single shit about anyone else other than as a validation tool for the transperson.

I'm considering raising at work (NHS hospital) that senior managers , freedom to speak up guardian etc having pronouns in their email signatures is a micro aggression towards those with the protected characteristic of belief. I'm not there yet, but I might get that bit more peri-menopausal and have even less fucks to give, one of these days.

Diverze · 09/02/2024 14:30

It's funny, a few years ago I had a crown fall out and rang the emergency dental hospital. The triage person asked me my sexuality - the second question after my name and address. It felt a) irrelevant and B) intrusive and I told her I didn't see the relevance my sexuality could have with regards to a dislodged crown. Now it all makes sense - the trust must have been trying to get one of these rainbow awards.

HelenDamnation1 · 09/02/2024 14:32

Good luck with that. Pronouns in signatures are everywhere in my NHS organisation. Along with the Bring your whole self to work BS.

Combattingthemoaners · 09/02/2024 14:33

Chersfrozenface · 09/02/2024 12:57

Don't worry, they'll all be back on the gravy train and in charge once Labour gets in at the GE.

Who are “they”?

LakeTiticaca · 09/02/2024 14:35

Good. Are they going to stop this chest feeding and birthing parent nonsense as well?

herewegoagainy · 09/02/2024 14:37

This is what you are worried about in the NHS!!

Chersfrozenface · 09/02/2024 14:40

Combattingthemoaners · 09/02/2024 14:33

Who are “they”?

LGBT Foundation, Stonewall, LGBT Consortium, Switchboard, and GLADD.

Possibly et al.

Combattingthemoaners · 09/02/2024 14:51

Chersfrozenface · 09/02/2024 14:40

LGBT Foundation, Stonewall, LGBT Consortium, Switchboard, and GLADD.

Possibly et al.

Why does it matter though if these groups wish to work with an organisation like the NHS to encourage equality? I’m asking a genuine question, not being confrontational.

FannyCann · 09/02/2024 14:53

Fantastic news. Though there will be a lot more to do to really root this out of the NHS.

I have been looking at

University Hospitals Bristol & Weston NHS Trust report. (Includes BRI & Bristol Royal Hospital for Children)

They scored Initial Stage 44/164.** (Ie failed to be accredited).

The recommendation to replace the term "gender reassignment" with "trans status" is a common recommendation in many of the trusts who took part in the programme. Stonewall law replacing the actual law.

“We highly recommend replacing the term “gender reassignment” with “trans status”, as this is a more inclusive of non-binary people as well as being more commonly
used and less medicalised. “trans status” can also be used instead of “gender identity” for more clarification as to who is protected by this term.”

Maternity/Paternity leave policies:
“The policy also refers to “mothers” without expanding to include gender neutral/inclusive terms.”*
*

Adoption leave policy:
“The policy also refers to “women” without expanding to include gender neutral/inclusive terms and only uses he/she pronouns throughout.”

The staff comments show just what staff are up against as they try to get on with their work, treading on eggshells incase they say the wrong thing and offend someone special.
*

Staff Comments:
*
“Maybe staff could benefit from transgender training as it can be difficult caring for a patient
who has not yet transitioned, (eg; male to female but being nursed in a female bay
where
other patients may comment).”

“More posters of same sex couples in maternity.”

Working in maternity it is easy to assume all birth givers identify as female yet in my
employment here we have had several nonbinary birth givers.
It can be confusing for staff
that are unfamiliar with LGBTQIA+ people, so maternity resources would be extremely
beneficial (St Michael's Hospital). In such a fragile and vulnerable state it is really important
for people to be correctly gendered so they can trust us and feel safe.”

“I think looking at transgender issues should be separate to sexual orientation issues. Both
are important, but there are practical issues around transgender healthcare, such as
placement on single sex wards that is not clear for staff - I have no idea what information
transgender patient are given about this. Non-binary is another separate issue- again, how
does this impact on mixed-sex wards etc?* I have experience of a patient changing genders
on a daily basis- it would be completely impractical to move this person between a male and female ward on a ongoing basis.* Ultimately, clinical staff are expected to be non-judgemental and provide the best possible healthcare to everyone, so this should be the trust expectation regardless of how someone identifies.”

Using incorrect terms such as gender for babies instead of sex assigned at birth - gender is something a person identifies. This is across the system.” 🙄

Someone needs to tell them that sex isn't assigned at birth either.🤦‍♀️

FannyCann · 09/02/2024 14:55

Here's a link to the report.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbowbadgeeaccreditationrepoo39#incoming-2538183

nothingcomestonothing · 09/02/2024 15:06

Combattingthemoaners · 09/02/2024 14:51

Why does it matter though if these groups wish to work with an organisation like the NHS to encourage equality? I’m asking a genuine question, not being confrontational.

There wouldn't be a problem if they did encourage equality. Unfortunately, they don't, they demand primacy of one group, which has detriment to other groups. Thus breaching the PSED and discriminating against others with protected characteristics.

FannyCann · 09/02/2024 15:10

Yes, this comment from staff at another trust came with a content warning:

Content warning: Anti-LGBT+ experiences and views, discrimination.
There was one full comment that may be cause for concern.

“We should stop saying birthing people in maternity policies. We are educated people than can adjust our wording for the minority that are trans. I think it is devaluing women and mothers”

Combattingthemoaners · 09/02/2024 15:31

nothingcomestonothing · 09/02/2024 15:06

There wouldn't be a problem if they did encourage equality. Unfortunately, they don't, they demand primacy of one group, which has detriment to other groups. Thus breaching the PSED and discriminating against others with protected characteristics.

Primacy of which group?

Chariothorses · 09/02/2024 15:33

Yes, these are just some of the examples of LGBT organisations trying to remove the human/ legal rights of others, especially women and children of transpeople, through LGBT workplace schemes like the NHS rainbow badge scheme , as they keep losing in court . With regards to the rights of children of transpeople :
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/McConnell-and-YY-judgment-Final.pdf

and in the ECHC
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2023/04/10/paperwork/

for child safeguarding reasons that should be very clear from the Mcconnell judgement above and here:
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2023/07/15/six-children/

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/McConnell-and-YY-judgment-Final.pdf

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