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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sunak in PMQs - thread 2

138 replies

AdamRyan · 09/02/2024 11:53

Ongoing discussion about whether Sunak cocked up in PMQs by raising "what women are" when Esthey Ghey was present, whether Starmer cocked up by raising Esther in response to Sunak, whether Sunak had planned the line knowing EG would be there or whether Starmer set a trap he unwittingly fell into.

Many segues into gender politics and left right debates.

All views welcome.
Thread 1:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5002735-starmer-furious-that-sunak-should-mention-his-definition-of-woman

OP posts:
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7
DialSquare · 10/02/2024 23:12

Not wound up. Just reiterating the facts for the many lurkers on this board. Operation Let Them Speak does a lot of the work for us.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 10/02/2024 23:28

Carlapig1 · 10/02/2024 22:35

You lot are actually very easily wound up though, there are some very insecure parents on this thread😉

Not easily wound up at all, its been seen so often on here thats its just a bit, well boring I suppose

Follows the same pattern ‘oh i am just an innocent wanderer 🥺 just happened to come across FWR, I’ve no idea what’s happening 🥹 why are people so mean 😭’

RufustheFactualReindeer · 10/02/2024 23:29

Its honestly really sad, you’ve nothing better to do 😩

Carlapig1 · 11/02/2024 09:26

RufustheFactualReindeer · 10/02/2024 23:29

Its honestly really sad, you’ve nothing better to do 😩

Some people on here do deserve a bit of winding up as they are so biased and condescending! However, having slept on it I've decided that to be fair some people on here are also just afraid and I get that. I had a violent father who beat my mum, she took my sister and me and left him, which was very brave of her, but died a few years later, when I was only eleven. I totally get the fear of what men can do to women and how important spaces are for women to run to. Here is a nice article that understands women's justifiable fears but says trans people are scared too and cis women need to understand that and be allies.
Trans Women Are Women. It's Time to Move Past Harmful Debate | TIME

Trans Women Are Women. It's Time to Move Past Harmful Debate

Living in a patriarchy is fundamentally scary for all women, but trans women are at heightened risk

https://time.com/5865581/transphobia-terf-harm/

lifeturnsonadime · 11/02/2024 09:36

Carlapig1 · 10/02/2024 22:35

You lot are actually very easily wound up though, there are some very insecure parents on this thread😉

If that is aimed at me well let me point out that I am extremely hard to wind up.

You'll have to try a lot harder than that.

But if you are simply on a wind up I feel a bit sorry for you. Don't you have better things to do at the weekend?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/02/2024 09:39

I think she's certainly given me a good laugh, @RufustheFactualReindeer

DialSquare · 11/02/2024 09:40

Allies = Handmaidens

GailBlancheViola · 11/02/2024 09:45

Impossible to take anyone seriously when they cite Julia Serrano as a feminist. It's notable that Carlapig1 completely ignored the posted comment from the fragrant Serrano so one deduces that they think that is hunky dory, super feminist and no doubt empowering.

The mask slipped with the referring to women as cis, twaw and women must be allies.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 11/02/2024 10:23

I had a violent father who beat my mum, she took my sister and me and left him, which was very brave of her, but died a few years later, when I was only eleven. I totally get the fear of what men can do to women and how important spaces are for women to run to

i am so sorry to hear that

RufustheFactualReindeer · 11/02/2024 10:24

The mask slipped with the referring to women as cis, twaw and women must be allies.

one of the fastest slips ever

GailBlancheViola · 11/02/2024 10:36

I am particularly enjoying the claims we are condescending in a post that patronises and drips with condescension, all here read this and educate yourselves you thick women.

We've moved onto the women you are purely on this earth to be validation tools, human shields and collateral damage for males with special feels and this poster thinks that is feminist.

Plus ca change from the male panderers.

RebelliousCow · 11/02/2024 10:48

Carlapig1 · 11/02/2024 09:26

Some people on here do deserve a bit of winding up as they are so biased and condescending! However, having slept on it I've decided that to be fair some people on here are also just afraid and I get that. I had a violent father who beat my mum, she took my sister and me and left him, which was very brave of her, but died a few years later, when I was only eleven. I totally get the fear of what men can do to women and how important spaces are for women to run to. Here is a nice article that understands women's justifiable fears but says trans people are scared too and cis women need to understand that and be allies.
Trans Women Are Women. It's Time to Move Past Harmful Debate | TIME

The issue is not just one of violent men, but also very much about one of the privacy and dignity of one's sex. We know that many men are motivated to transition by AGP ( read Janice Turner's interview a few days ago with Debbie Hayton - in the Times - you can find links on this forum) and the erotic drive lies behind that. Women do not want to be walk on parts in someone's erotic fantasy in situations where they are undressed or vulnerable. and they don't want their daughters or grandaughters or pupils subject to it, either.

Men/males have a greater propensity to all sorts of behaviours: voyeurism; fetish; flashing ( self exposure); heavy breathing phone calls ( ask anyone who works on a help line). There is now plenty of evidence of males violating women's boundaries in order to achieve a thrill or to validate their 'identity'.

I come across men presenting as women quite frequently where i live - and it is very apparent that most are driven by eroticism and voyeurism. As with your example of Julia Serrano - women and womanhood are perceived in very sexualised terms.

We don't accept the term 'cis' here - because i've I've tried to explain to you on several occasions ( without response from you) - such terms form part of a whole ideological construct. If you don't adhere or buy into this construct they have no meaning - in fact it is quite insulting to suggest to women that they are just one kind of woman - and that males can be women too.

Women are adult human females. Being a woman has got nothing specifically to do with gender roles or clothing presentations.

Lovesplasticstraws · 11/02/2024 11:11

The "haven't you got better things to worry about" argument never stacks up. I wonder why people persist with it. I've concluded that can only come from a very narrow world view.

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