Andrew Doyle

[MalagaNights]

Anyone been following this on twitter? He's been attacked for calling Debbie Hayton she in an interview.
Some horrible homophobic stuff and he has left twitter.

https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1754747745967988982?s=20

The attacks on Janice Turner, Stella Creasey, Kathleen Stock and now Andrew Doyle, people who've been at the forefront of putting themselves on the line over this issue, for years, is so utterly depressing.

Sure, disagree with their decisions make your point but accept good people, really good people in these cases, may make come to a different decision to you sometimes. Particularly when it's complex, tricky, and still being worked through.

Some GC feminists are really revealing themselves to be as authoritian as the TRAs.

A lot of women believe that DH has manipulated people into calling him she.

It's raging inducing when people don't see it.

That's got fuck all to do with hating men, and calling Andrew Doyle, of all people, homophobic slurs.

I can't imagine a single woman on here ever doing that. Christ, loads are homosexual themselves, loads are married to men, and loads have sons.

It's not a man hating hot bed of homophobia.

If anything, I would've thought that Andrew Doyle was targeted, precisely because he has done so much work.

I don't agree with him calling Hayton she, but that doesn't undo everything he's done!

thanks for articulating what I feel @Datun
I get so frustrated by the "good trans", "real trans" narratives and do worry when people don't see what is blindingly obvious
Men like "Debbie" Hayton worry me more than any unhinged TRA
And I will judge the likes of Stella O'Malley et al for entertaining these bloody men- they're putting my daughter at risk with this ridiculous fawning
I don't know what's happened re Andrew Doyle- obviously homophobic slurs are not ok

The screenshots I saw of tweets directed at Andrew Doyle were vile, and of a completely different order to anything I've witnessed in other GC Twitter rows. It was the kind of abuse you hoped had died out years ago. I hope he's ok.

https://x.com/robbietravers/status/1754595914994327566

Link to spaces.

Yes, purity spirals can happen anywhere it seems.

'Slain and shunned'. Wee bit hyperbolic there.

Thanks to @ArabellaScott for posting the link to the 4 hour long Twitter space below, for anyone curious.

GC feminists have always had a problem with men being called "women", "she" and "her" with good reason.

Are we to stop having a problem with it when it's RW media doing it instead of the Guardian?

Yes I'm sensing glee and deep satisfaction in some people on social media in the opportunity to apply this sacrosanct GC rule without mercy.
They have a role to police the failures of those not pure to the movement and they are seizing it with great enthusiasm.
If you're not 100% pure in all action you need to be made to pay.

It's the same old.
It was always going to get to this point.

Something tells me the zealots have found the wind is no longer blowing one way and they are now cleansing themselves of their past sin.

Religious nuts will follow any god... and throw the first stone with pleasure.

A little bit.
To make the point.

Nope.
And not the point anyone is making.

Read Andrew's message.

I was up very late, and reading the thread in question but not with the caps attached earlier or those same comments happening live. He said he's had a lot of comments from gay men alleging homophobia from GC accounts. He said he wouldn't be GC anymore then, a few times. Interspersed with this was:

Anti-feminist commenters getting digs in alleging feminist misandry - Billboard Chris was one.
Many comments objecting to the use of she/her for Hayton. Assertive but not phobic, but coupled with the actual homphobia in other comments, a tipping point may have been reached 🤷🏻‍♀️

I feel he's had his buttons pushed - hours of pushback about pronouns for Hayton, heard he was disparaged in a Spaces, was definitely commented on about being block-happy, but not rudely. I feel I read someone wondering whether GC antipathy to surrogacy was what he meant as classable as homophobia. All gone puff in the morning.

Yes.
Zealotry has entered the movement.

I've read Andrew's message (thanks for the screenshot) he too assumes its women, the original kind, that are making these pronouncements.
I'm yet to be convinced. Of the screenshots a pp put up, one had a blue tick, the others could have been anyone.

Still no idea why the entire of MN is being blamed for it and still not sure what "it" is. Looks a lot like a man threw a strop and closed down his social media?

I've read his message and I disagree with his accusation of homophobia in the feminist movement, given the lesbians in it. He was happy to use female pronouns wrt DH and that was his choice. Given his knowledge of the situation I'm shocked that he was surprised by the reaction he got.

To cry "homophobia" and hatred of men then flounce was his decision and he's perfectly entitled to do so. But it doesn't make his allegations against feminism true. Feminism is a pro-woman movement. Not a pro-trans, pro-man (heterosexual or homosexual), or "Be Kind" movement.

The idea that women need to be so grateful to men for stating biological reality that they stay silent is anti feminist.

Looks like a lot of fuss over fuckall imo.

He said he wouldn't be GC anymore...

Seriously? WTF? Does he know what GC means?

No it wasn't fuck all. He's had some truly vile homophobic abuse. I've seen a few screenshots and I've no idea who from though no-one I recognised. But I imagine he's feeling pretty shaken and I'm not going to take anything he's said tonight that seriously. Let the dust settle.

Very sensible.

The same people that say they are in this fight to try and preserve single sex spaces, are happy to pander to, promote and be friends with the man that wrote the policy that removed the rights of girls and women in schools, to single sex spaces.

Make it make sense. Why are they so chummy with him? I just don't get it.

Me neither.

But I'll say one thing, I genuinely believe this is a journey and that they are just not yet at the destination.

And yes I know that sounds patronising...

... but I really think I'm right

And yes, I know that sounds patronising too 🤣

I could keep going...

GC women have been clear from the start. Men are not women.

What is pathetic is well paid, adult commentators with a massive platform, who've made names for themselves the back of feminists, women's rights and child safeguarding campaigners defer to transwomen when face to face with them. Then complaining about mean GC feminists when pulled up on it.

It's utter hypocrisy to say children shouldn't call transwomen teachers "Miss" if the so-called adults in the room refer to them as "she" and "her".

Its tempting to think all those accounts saying incredibly homophobic things/cartoonishly misandrist stuff were not real women/not real GC feminists. But its twitter. Something about that platform seems to bring out the very worst in people (not making excuses) and I don't think purity spirals and unpleasantness are linked to any particular group. I do think its a little unfair when its used as proof of female/feminist toxicity when you don't see isolated male rage tweets used in the same way most of the time (or maybe you do). But that's going of topic its completely understandable for Andrew Doyle to be upset about this.