Year 8 trans child - in secret

[WoollyMammoth1]

The recent news article about the trans child at a primary school made me think of sharing a similar story at my DD school, big difference being is that's a secondary school.
DD is in year 8, there's a child in her year that identifies as a girl but is a boy. No one at school, besides staff knows, DD doesn't know either as whilst I feel bad withholding the information, I don't want her to keep this secret at school.

The child has a sibling at the school, who calls him by his girl name. They change in the disabled changing room and use the disabled toilet.

I found out through social media, the parent came up as a possible contact, their profile is open and there were many pictures of her children when younger making it very clear. Absolutely no doubt.

When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do. The child's rights seem to trump all others.

DD and the child started building a friendship last year, but this went sour. Which I am glad for considering the circumstances.

My issue here is the deceit and secrecy. Non of the year group know the child is a boy which is such an obvious safeguarding risk, and once they find out they'll feel betrayed. Any friendships are based on a lie. And I feel like I am condoning the situation by not saying anything, esp to DD.

The child lives further from school then most other kids, likely to try and ensure there were no other children at the school that might know them.

It feels wrong to keep things quiet, esp for my daughters, and other girls in her year's sake, so hoping that someone here may have some good ideas in where to go from here.

(Long term Mumsnetter, name changed for this post)

I think younger kids don't really care - but as soon as kids hit puberty all the trans stuff becomes very apparent and relevant, and of course children will realise - I think its really hard for a transwoman to truly pass, seem to be much easier for transmen.

Sad about kids avoiding Charlotte, but it maybe its more to do with their personality than their desire to appear female?

I think it's wrong for all children to lose out on an event or overnight because of one child's fantasy about themselves. I think it's wrong for a parent to tell their child it's okay to use the disabled toilet even though they are not disabled. I think it's wrong for a parent to push a school to allow their male child into girls' sports, changing rooms and toilets. I think it's wrong for a parent to try to hide the sex of their child from other children. I think it's wrong for a parent to think the rules shouldn't apply to their child.

@VivienneDelacroix Strangley when you ask why my "authentic self" cant be anyone I choose it to be but men can be women because something in their head says they are you never get an answer. Wonder why that is?

If schools and teachers did their job in clamping down on bullying then there would not be so many autistrc children thinking they had to change their bodies to fit in. I also wonder if some of those teachers didnt put the idea in their heads.

It's vile isn't it?

I'm so sorry that it still isn't safe for your son to be able to discuss his transition openly at school. I'd hoped we'd have gotten there by now, but alas we underestimated quite how fervent the transphobic swingback would be this time round - yet another generation paying the price of silence for the same old die-hard, stale bigotry.

Just a glance at the replies in this thread, let alone the mere existence of the thread to begin with, shows precisely why we still have to be so careful.

It's a long and lonely journey but it's a lot less lonely nowadays than it was twenty years ago. I hope it all works out well for him and I wish the both of you all the best!

It is likely it will become obvious and how will all the children who've been told this child is female feel about that?

How all the child himself feel when he is faced with the truth about his perfectly normal sexed body?

When he finds that his family have been lying to him, and that the best he can hope for are drugs and surgery that will destroy any chance he has of having a fulfilling sexual relationship, and that he will never, despite what he has been assured by everyone around him, be a woman?

Edit for typo

You have an immense responsibility resting upon your shoulders.

You could ruin this vulnerable child's life outright, either forcing her to move schools again or opening her up to abuse; you could place this burden upon your own child as well and force her to also have to deal with this responsibility unnecessarily.

Alternatively, you could allow this poor girl to continue to live the life she and her family have managed to scrape together in secret.

If you choose not to ruin this girl's life, you also get to continue not being seen as a dangerous and harmful bigot by your fellow parents. I would urge you to take this route if you can muster the strength to do so.

The child is a boy.

His life is already on the way to being ruined by being told he is a girl.

Please don't buy into the pronouns - they really are iniquitous.

It's not "dangerous and harmful bigotry" to be concerned for children navigating friendships that may be harmed by untruths. It's responsible parenting, having an insight into child development and peer relationships and wanting the best for all children.
Responsible adults understand this and don't hurl around accusations to try to shame and silence parents talking about challenges in parenting.
"Mumsnet makes parents' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support on everything from conception to childbirth, from babies to teenagers".

Alternatively, you could allow this poor girl to continue to live the life she and her family have managed to scrape together in secret.

Lies, fraud, trickery, deception are almost always considered to be wrong. Why is it different in this case and why do you defend deliberately deceiving children?

Secrets like this can't be good for the child in question nor the girls and boys his family are trying to trick.

Of course if a child's biological sex was as important in school as say your eye colour, shoe size or whatever trivial difference then this wouldn't be deception. But thats not the case. Your gender really "does" matter, not just changing spaces or sports but all around us.

I advise you read what @HalloumiGeller said about why many choose to keep their past a secret if it is an option.

It is a: unfortunately still safer and b: nobody else's business

No adult should be encouraging a child to pretend to be the opposite sex or participating in the pretence.

No child is a transsexual.

It is most definitely NOT safer for the girls being forced to overnight and change with the boys whose penises are being kept 'secret'. Nor is it safe for a girl who identifies as a boy to be in boys changing rooms and other places. Also, it's definitely uncaring and discriminatory to children with disabilities to take advantage of their toilets.

It is 100 percent the business of all parents and children if a child of the opposite sex is being secretly pushed into their children's assumed same-sex spaces. It is utter hubris to claim that only one family - the family of the child who identifies as the opposite sex - has rights to override consent and child privacy.

Well said, @Delphinium20 .

Once again the safety, privacy and dignity of female children is being sacrificed to cater to the fantasies of a male child - or rather to those of his family, because as @OldCrone has stated "No child is transexual".

You may wish it to be no one else's business, but when boys/men, even ones that don't want to be, start to enter girls/women's single spaces making them mixed sex it becomes everyone's problem.

If you out this child you are risking them being bullied, risking their mental health, they could end up suicidal. The Brianna Ghey case shows what can happen to trans children, I know this is an extreme case, but it is not your business to interfere in & not your secret to spread.

Brianna Ghey is not the slightest bit relevant here.

The thing I don't get about this, is that, stereotypically or not, teenage boys are considered at the mercy of their sex drives. So what are the families of these trans-identifying boys thinking? That their male teenager is fine around teenage girls because he thinks he's a girl? That they can whap him on estrogen and then he'll be just like the other girls??? As they deal with their new periods, hormones etc and he doesn't?

Truth will out

We need 3rd spaces to be put in place asap. We have always had children with gender dysphoria and historically predominantly pre-school age. No matter what anyone thinks or says, we will always have children with GD.

I agree a disabled toilet/changing room should be for disabled people only. However, provided a disabled person is not disadvantaged, as a temporary measure to keep female single sex places for women and girls it is a pragmatic temporary solution. Which is why gender neutral facilities need to be created asap - in addition to MF single sex spaces.

No one should be outing anyone be they a child or adult. This could be a disability (most are not visible), DV, abuse, sexuality or gender identity etc.

A school’s safeguarding lead will be balancing the rights and needs of all the children. They should have all the facts and should be best placed to decide who should be told what and when.

Brianna Ghey was not murdered because of transphobia - it was because of vulnerablility. Brianna was an easy target with, among other difficulties, autism, anorexia, depression and social isolation.

Brianna's killers had a list of people they intended to murder - Brianna was the first because of accessibility. IIRC they had planned on killing one of the others first, but something prevented that and Brianna was next on the list.

None of the others were trans as far as I am aware, but all were regarded as "easy" targets.

We need 3rd spaces to be put in place asap. We have always had children with gender dysphoria and historically predominantly pre-school age. No matter what anyone thinks or says, we will always have children with GD.

Really? When I was at school, there weren't any transsexual children. There weren't any at the schools I taught at in the 1990s either.

The transsexual child is a very new invention.

And pre-school transsexual children? Aren't they like vegan cats?

You are ignoring the influence of trans adults and groups advising girls that their uncomfortable pubertal bodies are wrong and can be fixed with drugs, surgery and a sex change.
Until these adults were allowed to directly influence children via social media and shamefully via schools, charities and everywhere that the young congregate, sex changing for children was virtually unheard of and has never been a thing in schools.
This is a massive social experiment on children and we as a society are culpable for failing to protect mentally vulnerable young people from the flawed belief that an impossible sex change will resolve their problems.

Brianna Ghey's horrific murder is not the same thing because Ghey wasn't hiding being trans.

But if we want to talk safety regarding nonconforming children, I think ending this entire charade as soon as possible is one way to prevent tragedies. Men do the majority of the killing in this world, and although being murdered for being trans is very rare (even in places like the US w/ high murder rates, trans people have lower rates than other demographics), a man who's been hoodwinked is FAR more likely to be violently angry than any 10-year-old.

What about safeguarding all the children and women and vulnerable adults that you are lying to about an individual's sex.
also people can tell someone's sex in most cases almost immediately