Year 8 trans child - in secret

[WoollyMammoth1]

The recent news article about the trans child at a primary school made me think of sharing a similar story at my DD school, big difference being is that's a secondary school.
DD is in year 8, there's a child in her year that identifies as a girl but is a boy. No one at school, besides staff knows, DD doesn't know either as whilst I feel bad withholding the information, I don't want her to keep this secret at school.

The child has a sibling at the school, who calls him by his girl name. They change in the disabled changing room and use the disabled toilet.

I found out through social media, the parent came up as a possible contact, their profile is open and there were many pictures of her children when younger making it very clear. Absolutely no doubt.

When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do. The child's rights seem to trump all others.

DD and the child started building a friendship last year, but this went sour. Which I am glad for considering the circumstances.

My issue here is the deceit and secrecy. Non of the year group know the child is a boy which is such an obvious safeguarding risk, and once they find out they'll feel betrayed. Any friendships are based on a lie. And I feel like I am condoning the situation by not saying anything, esp to DD.

The child lives further from school then most other kids, likely to try and ensure there were no other children at the school that might know them.

It feels wrong to keep things quiet, esp for my daughters, and other girls in her year's sake, so hoping that someone here may have some good ideas in where to go from here.

(Long term Mumsnetter, name changed for this post)

I can only talk of UK figures but Papyrus (teen suicide prevention charity) has figures for around 200 children and young people a year, however due to fact that often suicide is not returned as the verdict it may be more (but that is true for all ages).

It is also well acknowledged that children presenting to GIDS (as was) in the vast majority, have other complex issues going on, and these have very high suicide risk associated with them. To just focus on the trans aspect, with the idea that if a child is allowed to do what they like / want in terms of GI then all will be fine, is short sighted at best and absolutely failing them at worst.

These children deserve an holistic approach to care, but this has been driven out by adults who either should know better or those with ulterior motives.

I sympathise you are in a difficult position and of course its your judgement on telling your own DD. Depressingly this kid probably feels safer maintaining this ruse than being accepted as just a gender non conforming boy, but as stated it will be short lived. Thats an indictment of wider society but doesn't change your situation or that of the child in question. Glad to see the safeguarding angle being increasingly considered.

A friend had a very similar experience with one of her boys deciding to go "stealth" as a girl, changing schools with only a very few teachers knowing. At 11 he could blend in as a girl pretty well unnoticed before male puberty or blockers kicked in. As the years went on he experienced bullying and eventually withdrawal and home schooling. Who knows whether it came from trans issues, immaturity (physical and emotional, the latter vastly overlooked) or some co-morbidity so many of these kids have, who knows. He tested negative for Autism but I'm convinced he has something similar.

YY @Delphinium20

Threats are still threats, whether they're couched in terms of 'I was wondering what would happen if there happened to be a child at the school...' or the threat is an open 'We reckon Nana's <insert other unisex name> a boy and we're waiting for you to explain yourselves and give us Nana's personal medical history in case we can just be offended instead of actively outing somebody who might not even be male but we're applying Eurocentric appearance expectations - and causing the child and family as well as the school significant harm'.

A threat to force someone to give medical information would be bad. Except I didn't say that. I said to ask the school for their plans and actions when that happens. If the word when bothers you that much, suggest to OP to change it to if.

And as someone else just said, what is it with the Eurocentric appearances? Can't European women not be gender non conforming or are you implying outside of Europe women look like men?

I think this another version of the White Feminist insult

I wished they never happened. It's utterly devastating that we've had a number of teen suicides over 4 years and that the almost all of the children were either gender-questioning or trans, or neurodivergent.

The thematic review into the suicides is due very soon. The fact the children were trans or gender questioning hasn't been reported as it is their own business and irrelevant to the brief coverage of their deaths. I'm glad their cases have been afforded this dignity, how awful for their parents if their private lives were made public after their deaths.

Do people actually worry about 12 yo boys raping their daughters?

I am a childhood sexual assault survivor and I was even abused by a family member who was 14 so I'm not naive.

But even so when I look at most 12 yo boys I see children still.

Do people treat all 12 yo boys with the same distrust or just the trans ones?

If a rapist wants to rape someone a symbol on a bathroom door won't stop them.

I guess I don't have the same sense of safety people feel when it comes to bathrooms.

I was raped in a parking lot when I was 12. I'm not convinced if it was a women's only parking lot that would have changed things.

I just can't imagine fearing a child so much because they have a penis.

How do people talk to their own boys? What makes you certain your son's aren't potential rapists? Does anyone know the stats on trans child rapists? Is this a real thing we need to fear and tell our kids to fear? I don't get it.

People on here often say it's not about eliminating trans people but it is. This kid might not even be trans but the possibility has people outing her for safety reasons even when she's not using the same bathroom or change rooms as the girls. Somehow this child is a threat?

I hate that I agree with so many things on here regarding trans issues, but the way people speak about trans people let alone a child is horrific. It's cruel. We are now profiling trans kids as predators. 12 yo's don't pretend to be the other sex to get into a bathroom.

They can open the door and go in anytime they want.

I absolutely never said they were trans at all.

Denying children's deaths ever happened is pretty low.

I hate that I agree with so many things on here regarding trans issues, but the way people speak about trans people let alone a child is horrific. It's cruel. We are now profiling trans kids as predators. 12 yo's don't pretend to be the other sex to get into a bathroom.

So why do children pretend to be the opposite sex?

One of the biggest risk factors for suicide in children is neuro diversity, which often goes hand in hand with gender issues. There is a real danger of missing the massive warning signs because the focus is too much on gender.

Society is failing these children, and to just focus on the gender issues is doing them a massive disservice.

I can't link but I had a brief look at the RCP article in the screenshot, I was a bit foolish and googled autism and suicide when I share a Google account with an autistic teenager rather than go incognito, so I wanted to not do anymore. (Hidden due to sensitive nature)

Yes you're absolutely right. We need to see the whole child. The risk of suicide for autistic children is terrifying - amongst the children who died by suicide in my county over those four awful years, the risk factors identified are being autistic and/or (mostly and) gender questioning/trans .
We're working hard on addressing the risk factors for all of these groups, but as there are more autistic children than trans/gender questioning there is more resource going into addressing the specific needs of autistic children.
When I've sat on JARs the first thing I tend to ask is "was the child neurodiverse?" Sadly the answer has almost always been yes.

The man who raped me when I was a child was first convicted of raping a child when he was 12. He was convicted again of raping another child when he was 15. At 18 he bludgeoned a woman in her 80s to death. On his release from Rampton he moved into my house and raped me from the ages of 6 to 10.

Oh, and he wasn't trans.

Don't you feel a tad ashamed that your non disabled child is taking advantage of a space that was created for a child with a disability - what if that child in a wheelchair comes up and needs to wait for your child to finish and ends up having an accident? Wouldn't you feel awful for giving your child the idea they can use things that don't belong to them?

@Josette77 You seem to be the one assuming that trans people are predators - since the majority are female that's unlikely. People saying they are trans retain the offending profile of their sex.

If you allow 12 year old girls and boys to share a room you are unusual. Most people dont risk it. If you do when do you stop - 13. 14, 15 or only when one of the girls is pregnant? The government suggests separate rooms from age 10. You cant easily tell teenagers it's fine at 12 but not 13. You try to educate your sons to be respectful of women but you also understand peer pressure, the influence of social media and teenage boys obsession with sex.

Talk of "eliminating" children is just ridiculous hyperbole and childish.

Bullied children are at risk of suicide and neurodiverse children are more likely to be bullied. Pretending to be something they are not doesnt address their real problems.

If you venture to the Relationships board it will be easy to find many examples of people being gaslit by their partner (and sometimes family) into believing things that are not true in order to manipulate their behaviour and responses to that person/people.

Quite rightly, you will also find that the responses to such situations is to point out the toxicity of this situation and to withdraw from it.

Yet ironically when we are discussing children being gaslit en mass by people who have an obligation to keep them safe (an obligation that extends to not just their physical welfare, but mental health as well) then there seems to be a cohort of people that believe that supporting a false narrative for one child justifies undermining the best interests of their peers.

Odd, when I would hope that when it comes to protecting children from bring manipulated we would hold ourselves to a higher standard than we would for adults?

It's an ongoing theme re: this topic that's fuelled by a narrative of "most vulnerable/oppressed" - specifically formed to justify making accommodations at the expense of others and to manipulate behaviours/responses.

Yet the evidence for this assertion is very thin indeed. Are some "trans" children vulnerable- yes of course, but it's not necessarily their gender identity that's the core factor given the very high comorbidity rate.

Nor should it be assumed that this makes them more vulnerable that other children in the school who may be facing significant challenges of their own.

Safeguarding isn't a game of top trumps.

There is a duty to look after the best interests of all children in a school and I can't fathom how a policy of keeping gender identity a secret does that for the child in question or their peers (as detailed in my previous posts).

Such a good post.
It defies belief that adults want schools to promote an anti science, anti women belief that is doing so much harm to the young. The children who aren't able to extricate themselves from this (made so much harder when trusted adults fail to safeguard them) will be raging when they reach full maturity and realise that their bodies will no longer function properly. That they're infertile, their dating pool is tiny and their physical, mental health and future life has been compromised by decisions they made when they were too young to comprehend or consent to the outcomes.

Exactly. Not even dating. Year 8! At that age my daughter was very much 'no boys allowed boys are stinky' and if she had had a boy pretending to be a girl and joining in their private chats about puberty and who they fancy she would of been extremely distressed and confused.

It's wrong to lie about what sex you are and that is a safeguarding issue for all the other children.

You said the child is overweight which probably hides their figure and looks likes he is growing breasts.

How is it a hate crime yet pretending s child with a penis is a girl isn't a hate crime against the actual real girls he is mixing with?

I think you should tell your daughter, but not in a "big secret" dramatic way that will make her feel like telling others. Surely she has had situations where she has been discrete - when a friend is ill or something - just treat it like that. I think it will be worse for your DD if they ask you and find out you already knew and didn't say. That is like saying to them that you don't think it matters.

In an general point, I think that it is different to not disclose something about yourself (parent in prison, a medical condition) than to actively lie that you are something you are not. My DD has an ASD diagnosis, but very few people know and kids don't ask each other as it's none of their business. If a child was going around telling people that they had autism, when they did not, then I think that is different. You don't expect people to share everything, but we do expect honesty on the things they do share. This child is saying they are female, so it is a lie, not just an omission.

Charlotte is involved in the performing arts and I’ve seen him a lot when watching my DD. It’s sad actually because the other children don’t seem to feel comfortable around him and actively avoid being too close to him. Not overtly, but they seem uneasy with him.

Yes, because the entire relationship is built on lies.

I mean there might be more to it than that and they should trust their instincts, but relationships don't work well if not built on mutual respect and trust.

Because girls are being denied the right of being considered fully human.