Thank you: Debbie Hayton in the Mail

[Needmoresleep]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13011839/I-went-agonising-operation-thought-woman-finally-make-happy-devastating-revelation.html

It's the skin colour that's making me shudder, whether that's American Tan or British Pale Potato!

Apart from anything else, any parent knows, trying to get a pair of tights on a five-year-old is difficult if you're an adult, much much less if they're trying to do themselves.

Datun, I fear you may have overestimated the knowledge of certain parents. It would certainly appear that Mr Hayton did not spend much time putting tights on his five year old daughters.

American tan? In Scotland we called them Aggie Broons…

Yes, it had occurred to me that he was operating on very little, er, lived experience.

Aggie Broons sound like the colour of oxtail soup.

American Tan was, iirc, just as awful as it sounds. My mum was never out of them.

Amy Hamm posted this which, I think, sums it up

Absolutely Icake. The ultimate validation… GC women fawning over you.

Yes, Amy has got their number.

It's successful because people are afraid of being accused of being "transphobic" due to their views. So they clutch at the idea "no I'm not transphobic, see, even some actual trans people agree with me" and this gives the likes of Hayton social capital and influence. I remember thinking like that myself and I once referred specifically to Hayton in a discussion with a "liberal" friend.

Now I'm a bit more accepting of being called transphobic, I suppose. I'm not going to try to defend myself any more from that

American Tan was the 'go to' [I can't say fetish, more like..oh crap it was a fetish wasn't it] of many, many 90s lads. I had one friend who would only date women who 'ironically' wore 'American Tan' tights in the 90s. He would have been in his mid to late 20s at the time.

How do you “ironically” wear tights? I wasn’t allowed to wear American Tan because my mum said they weren’t for the likes of me. I had to wear nude and towards the back end of the 90’s I found opaque and grunge.

I want to ironically wear tights now! 🤣

Were you not allowed to wear them because you were pale or did they have connotations I'm not aware of?

God, now I'm worried my mum was inadvertently signalling something!

Although, to be far, it was way before the 90s.

Minefield.

Ha ha - the college hairdressers all wore American Tan, it was part of the overall look.

Whereas the Goth and Punk girls wouldn't go near them.

The would have been goth and punks did start wearing them with Grunge Dresses in the 90s, with socks and DMs...the boys loved them when they wouldn't have gone anywhere near a college hairdresser [or the hairdressers wouldn't have gone for them more like]. They called it wearing American Tan Ironically. Not my words! I'd never go near them, it was black fishnets for me.

When I was sent down to the chemists for a pair of tights for my mum, she always said 'not American tan' 🤔

They were definitely naff by the end of 1975. I remember the girls all wearing grey for the school disco.

Jesus Christ, have you seen Janice Turner's article in The Times? 😱

There’s a thread on it @TinselAngel

I've been avoiding it @TinselAngel I fear the worse.

You fear correctly

Fuck! 😠

Someone on X should send her Amy Hamm's tweet.

Has anyone seen KJK's latest video? She hits the nail on the head as per usual.

It's interesting where she points out that these women have been talking about the issue for 8, 10 years, and they're still no closer to grasping the depth of AGP.

When I first got interested in this about nine years ago, there were lots of talks, in London, and dotted around. Women had really had enough, and were trying to gather together to discuss it. At one such talk, I'm guessing it was around 2017, maybe 2016, , there was a panel of women, about four of them. All of them now well-known.

None of them had heard of AGP.

They were talking about transgenderism, informed about the issue, angry, worried, but had no idea that it was driven by a sexual compulsion.

I still think that it might well come down to the life experience of some women, as to how readily they believe this is just all about sex.

Yes Datun. Is it wilful or down to life experience as you say. I suspect it is wilful with some of them but have no idea why a feminist would put their fingers in their ears when it comes to AGP.

No it is an odd one for a feminist.

I think that any libfem who is on board with extreme porn and the legalisation of prostitution, surrogacy etc would be capable of swallowing public erotic cross-dressing as a legitimate expression of sexual freedom (though her attitude to any TW she knows personally might switch from fawning to disgusted - all the more thrilling for him!).

Because it's all about men getting what they want, mostly at the expense of women, and who could possibly object to that?

A week-long series about transwidows in the DM or Times would be great, but I'm now feeling so pessimistic I can see it being greeted with a chorus of 'the wimmin are revolting again! Prudes!'.

A week-long series about transwidows in the DM or Times would be great

It would.

And it would satisfy any newspapers' sense of sensationalism if that absolutely has to be a factor.

I guarantee it would sell.

Plus it wouldn't just move the Overton window, it would scrub it with Windolene, fling it open and flood the room with glaring sunlight.