Thank you: Debbie Hayton in the Mail

[Needmoresleep]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13011839/I-went-agonising-operation-thought-woman-finally-make-happy-devastating-revelation.html

I read the BTL comments on that article and was shocked, but not surprised, at how many didn't get why what the OP had been doing was so bad. A really scary amount of folk who didn't seem to understand consent.

I'd happily make a large wager that most of those who couldn't see a problem were men...

It's like the once you've agreed someone can legally be the sex they want rather than the sex they are you've opened the door wide to a guy of 50 legally forcing admittance to your kid's nursery.

You may think it's extreme and silly, and a rational person has lines and boundaries. Yes, we've all fallen for that one;

Oh yes that ship has sailed.

Only last week, a 50-year-old man not only competed with the 13 to 16-year-old girls at a swim meet, he waltzed into their changjng room and changed in there.

And the activist who was there with his microphone and camera was told to leave, otherwise the police would be called on him.

There's an underlying current of "it's only abuse, if someone gets hurt" which I can hear.
Sounds like those abusers who say "they enjoyed it" or "they asked for it". There are cases where the abused shack up with their abusers. It is still abuse.

Nice lively couple with mutual consent to abuse each other lovingly, is still abuse.

There's a...well, I'm not sure I'd call it a review...gushing fluff piece in the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/non-fiction/review-transsexual-apostate-debbie-hayton/

https://archive.ph/lHLkc

The person who wrote it is totally buying what he's selling, except for a little push back on the AGP!

Although the subheading claims he's 'enraged all sides', the only examples given are from tras and other tw.

The comments are mixed. But many people appear to have wised up to Hayton already.

it's interesting watching this play out in real time. Those who appreciate his honesty and think he's refreshing, and a force for positivity. And those who...don't.

Almost all of them pissed off at the telegraph calling him she, tho.

Even if they've never read the piece, most people realise that pronouns are, indeed, like Rohypnol.

I think this piece is valuable as a public safety message.

The message is: don't have children with a self-confessed cross-dresser, because he may well 'transition' later. And no-one is going to be fine with that, are they? The least bad scenario would be an amicable split, which is still not great.

The message is: don't have children with a self-confessed cross-dresser, because he may well 'transition' later

Can confirm.

(Not that I regret DD obviously).

How, at 5 years old, did he know he had to 'hide' his rummaging in the bin for mummy's tights? Why didn't he just ask to put them on? Oh - because it's not true, is it?

Adult tights would be ludicrously too big for a 5 year old anyway.

It's unusually capable behaviour from a five year old. Mine certainly could not surreptitiously remove clothes from the bin, put them on, and take them off again, all without parental involvement.

His obsession for convincing everyone that his love of tights is innate is bonkers. We get it, he likes tights, we dont need to hear about it.

The message is: don't have children with a self-confessed cross-dresser, because he may well 'transition' later.

Yes. I hope one thing that comes from this whole fight is that a lot more women see this as a red flag. Or ideally like a Russian doll of red flags, except in this case more red flags come out of each doll even though the dolls get smaller.

Especially tights!

Exactly, i remember having to make sure my daughter didnt wear tights on PE days in cold weather, because it would have taken her ages to put them on again, if at all.

And they were robust woolly childrens ones, not thin adult ones.

Indeed.

If you're going to use children as justification for an adult fetish, you really shouldn't tell people that it's an actual fetish.

Although bonkers, the born in the wrong body narrative did at least start from the premise that you were born that way.

You're not born with a bloody fetish.

He's trying to weave two stories together, to justify the claim that even though he's admitted to being a fetishist, it's really not that bad, it's not his fault, and it's not a big deal.

(Thanks Rachel!)

How would mankind have evolved an innate love of tights?

Is he trying to convince us that as a 5-year-old, he had this fetish? So every little boy who likes dressing up is a fetishist just like him? Is that where this is going?

How often was Mrs Hayton supposed to be throwing tights away, anyway? That review makes it sound like a twice-weekly event!

I'm sure someone already claimed that children's dress-up was 'childhood sexuality' manifesting itself on the board earlier in the week. It might even have been this thread.

Is he trying to convince us that as a 5-year-old, he had this fetish? So every little boy who likes dressing up is a fetishist just like him? Is that where this is going?

He's replacing "born in the wrong body" with "born with a fetish". It's the AGP child replacing the trans child, in advance of gender ideology being dismantled.

You see what I said earlier about Hayton being strategic?

Exactly. 50 years ago women weren't throwing tights away, willy-nilly.

that's what clear nail varnish was for

And darning.

I haven't read it, but I'm really wondering about tights.

It's such an odd choice to broadcast.

Apart from anything else, any parent knows, trying to get a pair of tights on a five-year-old is difficult if you're an adult, much much less if they're trying to do themselves.

So why tights?

Why not shoes (a lot more accessible), or mum's lippy, or other clothes less underwear adjacent?

Could it be because most parents have had experience of boys trying all that stuff on? Because it's fairly common place and completely normal?

Or because there’s more thrill in talking about tights and getting readers to think of you putting on tights?

Yes. And it may not sound quite as pervy as actual underwear.