Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
26
Mirabai · 28/01/2024 20:13

I don’t know that he can personally retract it, they’re National guidelines, and anyway my point was that his motivations are not included, which indeed they are not.

Datun · 28/01/2024 20:19

MrsTwatInAHat · 28/01/2024 19:52

Good Lord. Debbie Hayton is a science teacher. Debbie Hayton will know that getting turned on by watching sissy porn doesn't make you a real woman.

Tell that to Alice Roberts, and plenty of other female scientists, including professors, who are not AGPs but spout this shite. I think it’s entirely possible that someone like DH, maybe in the past, could be in denial about his agp and convince himself of this instead. Fuck knows why anyone believes it but they do, or try to make themselves believe it. it’s one of the mysteries of gender ideology but it’s definitely a thing.

AGAIN, not defending him, but I agree with mirabai that people are complex and capable of absolutely vast self-delusion, self-misunderstanding and compartmentalisation.

Good grief.

Hayton is in his mid to late fifties !! 😄

Honestly.

No wonder tinsel gets a bit blunt.

The woman has been married to an AGP, she set up a website for partners of AGPs, and manages a support thread on here running into thousands and thousands of posts by women who are married to AGPs, and is consulted everywhere about her knowledge. Sorry, 'lived experience.'

Complex self delusion, misunderstanding, magical thinking, truly believe he's a woman, didn't really have a clue what he was doing when he made all those policy decisions and school protocols because he was unaware, despite all the sissy porn.

My arse.

Indeed 🤣

But hey, as long as it's exposing the, er, reality.

NotBadConsidering · 28/01/2024 20:20

Of course his motivations are included. It helps other males with AGP also act out their fetish at schools. “Make sure everyone calls them ‘Miss’.”

He can’t withdraw the guidelines himself, but he can publicly withdraw the advice he gave to the guidelines.

Datun · 28/01/2024 20:21

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 20:13

I don’t know that he can personally retract it, they’re National guidelines, and anyway my point was that his motivations are not included, which indeed they are not.

His motivation was to let men into the women's, and boys into the girls.

It wasn't a secret!

Mumoftwo1312 · 28/01/2024 20:36

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 18:59

I'm not going to thank Debbie Hayton for acting out his AGP in front of kids at school.

That’s rather misunderstanding the complexity of his motivation, which he clearly wasn’t aware of at the time. And it ignores the number of teachers who get off sexually on teaching teen girls or boys - there were a couple of hardcore offenders at my school.

What? I do not "ignore" sex offenders who work in schools. They are monsters and I want to contribute to keeping children safe from them. I have no idea how you can quote me and come to the conclusion that I'm somehow condoning paedophiles working in schools?! Quite the opposite. I'd rather be stricter with the behaviours we allow of teachers: specifically, I'm astonished that this man is allowed to act out a sexual fetish in front of students. This is unheard of in any school I've taught at, I'm amazed he gets away with it.

How you can read me say this and conclude that I'm "ignoring" sex offenders in schools, I have no idea, it is exactly the opposite of what I'm doing.

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 20:38

Datun · 28/01/2024 20:21

His motivation was to let men into the women's, and boys into the girls.

It wasn't a secret!

The discussion was the motivations behind becoming trans if you recall.

MrsTwatInAHat · 28/01/2024 20:39

Yes, but we’re talking about what his thinking may have been previously. He has changed his mind on certain things, not that that makes him some kind of feminist icon but it is a thing that happens.

The fact remains that people of any age can be self-deluding. I have made clear that I don’t know what his motivations are or were and when challenged on that I gave several possibilities.

I think it’s quite possible that an AGP could be aware of their gratification at being treated as a woman but suppress that and delude themselves that it’s “gender euphoria” at least temporarily. You seem worried that if that were the case he’d be let off the hook somehow. I don’t see why. Deluded or in denial aren’t positive traits or some kind of excuse.

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 20:40

Mumoftwo1312 · 28/01/2024 20:36

What? I do not "ignore" sex offenders who work in schools. They are monsters and I want to contribute to keeping children safe from them. I have no idea how you can quote me and come to the conclusion that I'm somehow condoning paedophiles working in schools?! Quite the opposite. I'd rather be stricter with the behaviours we allow of teachers: specifically, I'm astonished that this man is allowed to act out a sexual fetish in front of students. This is unheard of in any school I've taught at, I'm amazed he gets away with it.

How you can read me say this and conclude that I'm "ignoring" sex offenders in schools, I have no idea, it is exactly the opposite of what I'm doing.

Where did I mention sex offenders? You don’t have to act on something to get off on it.

Mumoftwo1312 · 28/01/2024 20:46

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 20:40

Where did I mention sex offenders? You don’t have to act on something to get off on it.

You literally mentioned "offenders" in the post I have directly quoted...?! and said that I was ignoring them in my criticism of Debbie Hayton.

I can only imagine this is just a standard example of "up is actually down" rhetoric so common in this ideology, because arguing with it is like trying to grasp smoke. Somehow, by criticising Hayton acting out his sexual fetish in schools, I'm "ignoring" teachers who are "hard core offenders".

No. I'm not ignoring those.

Datun · 28/01/2024 20:56

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 20:38

The discussion was the motivations behind becoming trans if you recall.

It's AGP?

There's an article? He's written a book? The op?

Crikey, you've got short attention span

LoobiJee · 28/01/2024 21:02

MrsTwatInAHat · 28/01/2024 16:32

So yes if successful this will make people more accepting.

If you always assume Hayton is 10 steps ahead of us, you won't be far wrong

Why? Because he's a man and they're cleverer? I don't think so. You seem to be excluding yourself from this, as you are in the know and not naive like silly old me, so he's not 10 steps ahead of you, just me?

That "if successful" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Why should people be more accepting of a man coming into female spaces for sexual gratification, then because he really is a woman trapped in a man's body? The more people realise "woman trapped in a man's body" isn't a real thing, but "same old same old, man wants to get his rocks off" is what's going on, the more they'll realise gender ideology is bunk. (As is happening, though it's taking a long time)

The same goes for paedophilia of course. Yes they'll try to get it normalised and made acceptable, and those efforts have waxed and waned, waxing now of course with GI as a handy trojan horse. People tend to fight back though.

Why should people be more accepting of a man coming into female spaces for sexual gratification, than because he really is a woman trapped in a man's body? The more people realise "woman trapped in a man's body" isn't a real thing, but "same old same old, man wants to get his rocks off" is what's going on, the more they'll realise gender ideology is bunk.”

You seem to be assuming that society believes women’s well-being, safety, dignity, privacy and right to sexual boundaries to be more important than men having their sexual interests satisfied. And that society will push back against the normalisation of kinks and fetishes.

I mean.

Look at all the things that men have successfully normalised - so-called comedians on prime time TV making jokes about rape, anal sex, and prostituted women; extreme sexual violence against women being normalised via pornography and available to children at ever younger ages through smartphones and other technology; no debate worth mentioning about protecting children from the harms that brings; rampant sexualisation of women and girls to the point that girls want to /think they can escape it by amputating their breasts, and barely anyone other than GC women on here seeming capable of making that connection.

Society might, as you hope, decide that ‘gender ideology is bunk’.

And society might equally decide that it would be mean to stop erotic cross dressers from getting their erotic cross dressing kicks at the expense of women’s discomfort and dignity.

Bear in mind that, for example, Kathleen Stock in her book adopted a position of: we should be more understanding of these men. And have a look at the thread about Jan Morris and the description of other men being rather thrilled about JM.

Your hope (that society concludes gender identity is bunk) and Tinsel’s concern (that society will be rather thrilled to accommodate erotic cross dressers and rather unconcerned about the impact on their wives and other women) are not mutually exclusive. They could both happen.

DH’s goal is to present DHself as an upstanding member of society and to encourage society to regard erotic cross dressing as entirely compatible with being an upstanding member of society. It’s another step towards the Beaumont Society’s long term goal. (My guess is it won’t be long before we start hearing references to “the cross dressing community” and to ‘reclaiming language’.) The Beaumont Society’s promotion of gender identity was a means to an end, not the end in itself. They excluded homosexuals when they thought including them would undermine their goal, and aligned themselves with LGB campaigning when they thought that would help their campaign goal. If it looks like alignment with gender identity theory is becoming a risk to their campaign goals, they’ll be re strategising and re positioning. That’s what’s gong on here.

[I’ve adopted the terminology used in evidence to a parliamentary committee inquiry, on the basis that it must presumably be ok here too, to avoid using the banned Malaga airport acronym.]

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 21:17

Datun · 28/01/2024 20:56

It's AGP?

There's an article? He's written a book? The op?

Crikey, you've got short attention span

You were saying it was to let men into the women’s a minute ago.

In retrospect he has decided it was AGP but he wasn’t aware of that at the time.

We’re scraping along with a sub GCSE grasp of psychology.

MrsTwatInAHat · 28/01/2024 21:25

You seem to be assuming that society believes women’s well-being, safety, dignity, privacy and right to sexual boundaries to be more important than men having their sexual interests satisfied.

Well, we have women's spaces in the first place for that exact reason. Rape has also been at least frowned upon in most societies for quite a long time – made illegal, guarded against etc. Not that it doesn't happen but it's illegal and we don't actually live in a society where men are officially sanctioned to do whatever they want sexually to women or children all the time.

The drive to protect women and children, in law, with separate spaces and categories, with safeguarding etc., came from somewhere. Although gender ideology is trying to dismantle those protections, whatever it is in society that led us to install them in the first place is also still there IMO.

Datun · 28/01/2024 21:26

Well, my money always was on him never telling anyone he was AGP.

Now he has, I guess there are fewer options. Although I didn't expect, crikey, how did that happen, to be one of them.

TinselAngel · 28/01/2024 21:28

Datun · 28/01/2024 21:26

Well, my money always was on him never telling anyone he was AGP.

Now he has, I guess there are fewer options. Although I didn't expect, crikey, how did that happen, to be one of them.

Maybe you just have an insufficient understanding of psychology, Datun 🤷🏻‍♀️

Datun · 28/01/2024 21:33

TinselAngel · 28/01/2024 21:28

Maybe you just have an insufficient understanding of psychology, Datun 🤷🏻‍♀️

Quite.

"In retrospect he has decided it was AGP but he wasn’t aware of that at the time."

I wonder what gave it away 🤣

MrsTwatInAHat · 28/01/2024 21:34

to encourage society to regard erotic cross dressing as entirely compatible with being an upstanding member of society.

In fact it is compatible with that and has been forever - the difference was that it was secretive and seen as shameful so kept hidden. What is happening now is not that you can be a cross-dresser when you couldn't before, but that gender ideology has encouraged men with a fetish for cross-dressing to make it public and claim the right to be seen as women - which unfortunately appeals to their fetish and leads many of them to think transitioning is a good idea. And because of the definition of trans as self-identified, people are scared to challenge that for fear of being "transphobic".

The idea of cross-dressing itself only applies male-to-female because women have been able to wear "men's" clothes for centuries and that has been entirely normalised. If men could wear their pick of any clothes and that was normalised, that would undermine the reasons for AGP being a thing.

When men wear kilts, or djellabas, they are seen as male clothes and masculine, despite being essentially a skirt and a dress.

It's more complicated than just "cross-dressing is bad".

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 21:43

Datun · 28/01/2024 21:26

Well, my money always was on him never telling anyone he was AGP.

Now he has, I guess there are fewer options. Although I didn't expect, crikey, how did that happen, to be one of them.

Yeah, in early childhood he decided: “Hey I’m AGP, I won’t tell anyone til I’m 50 & then write a book”

That entirely tallies with developmental psychology.

TinselAngel · 28/01/2024 21:46

Oh I see it's not escalation and boundary pushing it's "developmental psychology".

Mirabai · 28/01/2024 21:55

TinselAngel · 28/01/2024 21:46

Oh I see it's not escalation and boundary pushing it's "developmental psychology".

You’ve completely missed the point.

How likely is it that he told himself in early childhood that he was AGP?

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2024 21:55

Your hope (that society concludes gender identity is bunk) and Tinsel’s concern (that society will be rather thrilled to accommodate erotic cross dressers and rather unconcerned about the impact on their wives and other women) are not mutually exclusive. They could both happen.

I am thinking right now of the 'CabababaRave', does anyone remember? When they had actual strippers stripping in front of babies. Pole dancers in thongs, etc. And last year's Margate Pride, a stripper stripping in front of a row of small children.

Women here have been saying for years 'when everyone realises what's really going on they'll be up in arms'.

Some are. Some are quite happy to flag wave a movement that is openly determined to remove all sexual boundaries from society, and will call anyone that suggests there maybe ought to be some boundaries and rules a 'prude' or a 'bigot'.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2024 21:56

Exhibit B: The Family Sex Show.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2024 21:56

Exhibit C: WPATH guidelines linking to 'the Eunuch Archive', containing detailed CSA fantasies, hosted on NHS Scotland's website.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2024 21:57

Exhibit D: Jordan Gray on Channel 4 sings 'I'm better than you' at women and plays the piano with his penis.

Channel 4 defends this.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2024 22:00

I mean, we could go on all night.

I will end with the fact that the Passport Office offers 'Female' passports to Crossdressers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gender-recognition/gender-recognition-accessible

Gender recognition (accessible)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gender-recognition/gender-recognition-accessible

Swipe left for the next trending thread