Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #5

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3
Thread #4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4991883-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-4

It's no wonder, because DH's reasoning about why it wasn't necessary for MW to have provided clarifying evidence about all kinds of things was piss poor.

Boiledbeetle · Today 14:39

MW was not a decision maker in any of the procedures in front of you

If that is so, have ERCC been employing they for no good reason, as them has no influence, or indeed, point?

I'm making beef and veg soup in the Ninja, if anyone's interested.

Good point, if no influence, why the job and the accompanying salary?

I'm salting aubergines for moussaka made from left over Easter lamb, so have time to kill while following this case as it's a long cooking process, NC is amazing as ever.

I still long for a case where BC and NC work together, it would be epic, even though it won't happen.

Also I think we can use him not they now!

NC reiterating the point that Article 8 is about the state recognising certain things and is not about obligations to be applied to employers or individuals, and any such argument that it is is not supported by Goodwin.

murasaki · Today 15:37

Also I think we can use h*m not they now!

I don't fancy risking it!

murasaki · Today 15:37

I'm salting aubergines for moussaka made from left over Easter lamb, so have time to kill while following this case as it's a long cooking process, NC is amazing as ever.

That sounds lovely! I got a 2.5kg leg before Easter, half price on the Nectar card. I just did it with garlic and Rosemary - wife and daughter both enjoyed it, despite daughter claiming not to like lamb and after seconds, asking "What was the meat?"

Hairy bikers recipe, just subbed in actual lamb for mince. It's great with the leftovers from a hefty shoulder! Glad your daughter enjoyed yours. And your soup sounds very tasty.

I'm going to stick with him, if it's good enough for NC, it's good enough for me...

That's it. They're reserving judgment to hand down later.

Status
The hearing took place at Edinburgh Employment Tribunal from 15 to 24 January 2024.
Oral submissions will be heard on 3rd April 2024, the first available date for the Tribunal panel and both counsel. It then could be 3-6 months before the judgment is handed down.

I hate having to wait...

If anyone is kind enough to thread the tweets (twixes?), I would be very grateful.

Do you mean this (scroll down to Live tweet threads)?

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

I do. Thanks!

Today's tweets aren't there yet, but at least I've got it bookmarked now, I can look later.

Thanks, nauticant et al.

So who has been making decisions and creating the workplace culture then?

On the one hand we have the implication that employees should just believe certain things and just follow orders otherwise they don't have to be employed rather than raise questions, do their job properly and safeguarding users and the organisation from negligence.

On the other hand we have the big honcho boss saying they didn't have the authority and control to make decisions and shape the culture of the office. Are we saying they didn't have the authority to run the show in line with the law? If so, who is actually the responsible adult in the room if something goes tits up?

And why is big honcho boss paid a fortune by an organisation which relies on donations and tax payer grants to function? Are they just on a grift at the expense of service users?

I must say I'm nightly confused about who in law would be the one who has liability here. Because in law there's always someone or someone's who have legal responsibility. Especially for a charity.

If big honcho boss isn't in charge what about trustees? Why were they signing off the big pay check to someone who sat on their arse and said 'not my rodeo it's someone else's'?

Strangely enough this case is about ERCC as a whole so it's irrelevant in some ways. All they are doing in denying responsibility is showing up the lack of due diligence and due process that should be at any employer and certainly any charity due to legal accountability. In which case if the charity is negligent in its legal duties to the claimant the claimant wins. It doesn't matter which idiot at ERCC ultimately is to blame - they all become collectively to blame because of this failure.

I think the Board will end up taking a lot of the blame. Trustees are supposed to ensure the charity is running properly and meeting its charitable aims plus keeping an eye on finances.

Thanks all

I don't think an employment tribunal necessarily gets pinned on an individual, they can all blame each other but it's the charity management that takes the kicking and that's both the CEO and the trustees who appointed the CEO and should have got their heads out of their arses, stopped waving rainbow flags and remembered that they have a charitable function to fulfil and employees to support. And not only the employees with gender identity problems.

Thanks everyone. Caught ip now.

Substack up to date.
https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1775569489561547058

For anyone else following the record of live tweets on the Open Justice substack, be aware today's sessions are headed 3rd February 2024 instead of 3rd April 2024.

AH FUCK WILL GO FIX IT

It's now fixed. Thanks for telling me Snowy.

And sorry about the swearing.

No problem. Cute .gif!

Fucking swearing! On mumsnet! For fucks sake!

It's fucking not on I tell you!