Non Binary Teachers

[WandaWomblesaurus]

My daughter (older teen) has had a total of three non binary teachers across primary and high school.
All were biologically female.
All went by Mx.

I asked her about her observations of them and anything she noticed in common with them as I was curious about how they have affected her education over the years.

"They all try too hard to connect with their students in an inappropriately informal way, talking a lot about personal life and relationships. A lot of talk about gender as would be expected. Sharing stuff about their own personal lives and relationships to the class and asking us about our relationships."

"They hijack the subjects they are teaching putting gender in. So for example we had a relief teacher in an English class giving us a paper about girls saying they are boys and having mastectomies and we were asked to rewrite it in our own words. I wrote on the paper I didn't agree with it."

"All of them have trans flags, stickers, posters saying TRANS IS BEAUTIFUL. Advertising it as a lifestyle choice basically."

"They try and be charismatic by putting on the nb front of 'coolness' and progressiveness but actually they are all quite awkward and square."

"Clothing wise they still all majorly present as women. They might have a short haircut but they wear dresses and makeup and I don't see how they even look androgynous or are breaking any stereotypes."

"A lot of time in classes is spent trying to imprint their opinions on us and they go off topic. They only try and relate to the girls. They don't have the skills to relate to the boys. A couple of the girls in my classes talk openly about having crushes on these teachers."

"The MX is a big thing, they get very snippy if they aren't MX'd, even by kids who are struggling to understand basic things. The pronouns are always seen as more important than the student."

Curious stuff isn't it?
I can't imagine these teachers having power in schools for much longer.

“your time would be better served discussing ways to reconcile women’s rights with trans/NB rights”

No such thing as women’s rights if you’re inviting men to discuss and dominate it. Get off your knees.

Exactly, we can’t discuss our biology because we’re clearly hysterical emotional
women. TRAs always show their true colours eventually, silence the women who won’t comply.

Don’t forget Nancy Kelly from Stonewall called lesbians who wouldn’t accept penises akin to sexual racists. Who’s really pushing the conversion therapy and trying to straighten the gays…?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225111/Stonewall-brands-lesbians-sexual-racists-raising-concerns-sex-transgender-women.html

Trans (women's) rights CANNOT co-exist with women's rights.

Because to capitulate to their demands (treating them as women and allowing unfettered access to all areas of women's spaces and services) means that some women will no longer be able to USE those spaces or services.

Therefore, women lose out EVERY TIME to allow a man's "identity" to trump their ACTUAL rights.

Do you think female victims of rape should just "get over it"? That orthodox women should just ignore their faith? That we should just ignore any kind of safeguarding for vulnerable women and girls? Because ANYONE can say they are trans. ANYONE. And there is no way to tell the good guys from the bad guys, so it is easier, safer and more logical just to keep ALL men out of women's spaces.

The good ones will understand why.
And the flip side of that coin is also true.

I'd love to know if any NB teachers teach Spanish.

please don’t accuse me of being a TRA. I am a woman, and a feminist, and trying to have a discussion of the nuances of this issue, which I come up against every day in my role as a teacher.Just because one TRA said something ridiculous and hateful does not mean all trans people feel like that. Just like, thankfully, you do not represent all feminists.

I don't want to be part of your feminism if it centres men and approves an ideology that erases women. Have a lovely evening.

Just because one TRA said something ridiculous and hateful

Who are you talking about? It was you who implied women should stop ‘wailing about biology’. That’s what PP was responding to.

A feminist who thinks biology isn't important in lots of circumstances?
Weird.

Guess women should just identify out of their oppression and stop wailing about it.

I'd love to know if any NB teachers teach Spanish.

It's come up regarding Welsh.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-64164011.amp

"The lack of knowledge of LGBTQ+ terms in Welsh means when people use "nhw" sometimes they are unable to be understood, according to Rowan Gulliver, a 22-year-old teacher in Barry, Vale of Glamorgan.

Working in a Welsh-speaking school, Rowan - who uses the non-binary Mx prefixx^ and they/them pronouns - had to come out to colleagues in English because they did not feel they could be understood in Welsh, nor did they have the vocabulary to do so.

"You should be able to speak about your identity and other people in your first language," they said. "It's like a little part of you is dying when you have to say it in English."

Huge amounts of victimhood going on here.

Try being a child with EAL or speech and language difficulties and not being able to comprehend or remember these confusing words that don't match the rest of the world.

Found this excerpt from when kids say they're trans from someone on Twitter:

All these identities pathologise children's natural individual self expression and draw attention to and over analyse gender stereotypes

I was a bit of a tomboy when I was a kid because my big sister was. She have me a ‘boy name’ when we played, we built dens and tree houses, played ‘boy games’ with action men and meccano.

I hated wearing frilly dresses because I was always tearing them clambering over fences or getting them caught in tree branches. I thought makeup and girly clothes looked like an awful lot of bother (had very glam mum and elder sisters).

What the hell would todays teachers have made of me? ‘I played at mountaineering and my name was Bill. We took our action men out with their helicopter (yes we had one) and built a tree house. I had on my brothers hand-me-down trousers because I hate wearing a dress…’

Coffee473

I grew up in the 90s and I beg to differ. All of the rhetoric: “it’s not natural! It’s dangerous! Children will be brainwashed!” is exactly the same. And I’m not alone in thinking that, just Google it. Plenty of mainstream media articles saying the same thing. It has all been done before.

Lots of trans people and their allies agree with you because it gives them and you a veneer of victimhood to hang on to

Rather than gnashing teeth and wailing about biology

This translates as 'lets ignore the truth because I have no argument against it'

your time would be better served discussing ways to reconcile women’s rights with trans/NB rights.

Shouldn't that be discussing ways to reconcile trans/NB rights. with women’s rights?

After all the interlopers that are trans are ones trying to take away the rights of women and children.

Denying it won’t stop it happening.

Nobody is denying that its happening, we are fighting to protect the rights of women and children.

Leaving this thread now, I’ve wasted far too much of my sick days on it!

That was very much your choice.

You make some rational comments, but then some other comments are just bizarrely over the top, Coffee. Why the final line, why the need to be so rude? You seem to be taking this all very personally, when most of us are quite calmly discussing the issues.

The ‘stop wailing about biology’ argument is such an odd one. In a way it shows that the person saying it is actually well aware of the importance of biology, because otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to exclude it from the discussion.

@ArabellaScott It is hard not to take it personally when I have been accused of being a TRA and silencing women., when I am a woman.

I was trying, perhaps badly as I’m dosed up on painkillers to express my frustration that some people on the thread, whatever the discussion, revert back to the argument that ‘it’s biology’. I am not denying, and never have, that there are biologically 2 sexes. But people who feel that they are transgender or non binary do exist. You can’t wish them away by saying “it’s not true” Or making sweeping statements about what they “all” believe. Or presenting them as a safeguarding risk. Or, actually, just blatantly being snarky and making fun of them (for example that whole bizarre Spanish tweet - I speak Spanish, I don’t see the humour)

I was drawn to the thread because of the blatant teacher bashing but stayed because I think it is a really important discussion to be had. I don’t agree with the erosion of women only spaces, and I don’t agree with transgender people in women’s sport. The rise in young adolescent girls rejecting their bodies and saying they are trans/non binary does worry me. But then I have also taught some wonderful well-rounded young people who express themselves very eloquently and are happy in their choice. Who happily use the unisex toilets and say they wish there were more because they feel uncomfortable going into male or female toilets.

I was teaching under Section 28 and don't recognise a lot of the hyperbole from current trans activists who have no direct experience of that time. Maybe there were individuals, or educational settings, or local authorities where its existence was seen as permission to be homophobic; but it certainly wasn't the case anywhere I worked. I've talked about this exaggeration of the impact of what was undoubtedly an absolutely abhorrent law with friends who taught or worked with young people in various parts of Wales and in some parts of England as well. Day-to-day we just ignored it. We were there to teach and support children and young people regardless, not to 'promote' any sexual orientation, so why should we be concerned about a prohibition on something we weren't doing.

It should never have been on the statute books, but there were no prosecutions whatsoever under Section 28 and it applied only to local authorities and their services, not to the whole of society or to commerce or broadcasting or anything else. It definitely would have had an impact on resources; but social attitudes continued to change while it was in force, with much greater acceptance of LGB people by the time it was repealed. In fact most had forgotten all about it by that point.

@Coffee473 "it is hard not to take it personally when I have been accused of being a TRA and silencing women., when I am a woman"

TRA is trans rights activist, not necessarily a trans person. They can be either sex and any gender whatsoever, not sure how many there are this week. As for "I am a woman" no one knows what those words mean any more.

It's not easy being on a thread when lots of people are disagreeing with you. I've experienced it a couple of times and it's intense.

There is a lot of concern amongst many posters here about the harm that is currently being done in association with non-binary and transgender identities. I used to think that non-binary was a harmless way of embracing "gender non-conformity", having been introduced to it via my work when I made contact with the LGBT network to learn more. I have written on previous threads about how helpful and considerate I found one person in particular. I still think about this now, even though my views have changed. Ultimately, it was through listening more, reading more (the Cass Review being an early game changer) and debating on here that I came to understand the full extent of the harm that is happening in both the pathway from social transition to sterilisation and mastectomy/castration and the wider issues around women's spaces and sports etc. I am now incensed about what is happening to girls like my autistic daughter. It's been over a year since her mental health crisis but she remains vulnerable to being pulled in to making irreversible changes to her body.
The Cass Review Interim Report and the very balanced and carefully written book Time to Think by Hannah Barnes give a well-rounded view that I would urge all teachers to read before they consider responding to the draft government guidance. The book is an excellent example of investigative journalism and gives space to children who are currently happy with their transition as well as those who aren't, whilst also exposing the failings of the Tavistock Centre and the direct influence that Mermaids had on the care that was delivered there.

That article is infuriating. Gender identity ideology is Anglocentric and colonialist. It's an incoherent belief system that demands incoherent language and it's taken hold most powerfully in the English-speaking world. Sadly there'll be some Welsh speakers so concerned about being kind and inclusive that they take the special pleading to mangle our language seriously.

I'm sorry to hear about the painkillers; I hope you are okay and feel better soon.

It is not teacher bashing. We all know plenty of teachers do not have these same views. I don't mind if teachers have any kinds of views on this but they need to listen with respect and humility to pupils who might hold a different view whether that be a pupil who supports Tory policies or believes or does not believe in God. The interesting point is facts and belief. Biology is a fact. How women ought to behave is a view. How women usually behave and what they usually wear can be a fact.

Also as teachers mostly teach facts it would be good if they taught English law too about the trans issue - the process to change gender (not sex) in the law which is fairly complex and set out in legislation and the provisions in the Equality Act 2010 which use "sex" and also "gender" too.

Or, actually, just blatantly being snarky and making fun of them (for example that whole bizarre Spanish tweet - I speak Spanish, I don’t see the humour)

It's from a major court case at the moment, where women have been hurt because someone with a non binary identity used their workplace as a vehicle for their identity issues, regardless of the needs and rights of others. So it is relevant.

I think non binary identity makes no sense whatsoever. I think it's a power trip over others. You can disagree, but you have yourself been pretty rude and dismissive to people,.

And I think you are missing significant elements of what is going on in the trans "rights" movement.