Another GC employment tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #3

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gener Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
[more to follow]

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2

Oof! Bet that hurt Dr Downes more than the talk did!

What a bloody world where we need a law to protect us if we believe that biology/science is actual fact!

This is the thing. They 'say' all kinds of things.

Stand by for the directive that female-only services must be part of the offer (with no wangling or wiggle room on what this means) alongside all other exciting and diverse services.

And let the meltdowns and rage begin at not controlling and coercing traumatised women.

And then lets revisit the 'strengthening up the definition of sex in the equality act' thing, because gosh Kemi, what a big pile of evidence you've got. With more incoming from today's live case.

This is slightly off topic and has perhaps been addressed in another thread but, who gave birth to Mridul Wadhwa's children? I can't help but think about that woman.

Reading the tribunal tweets carefully, it's interesting that KM seems confused about GRC v sex in passport. She thinks that MW must have 'gone through a lot' and 'lived as a woman' to get a passport saying 'female'. Those phrases are usually used about the process of getting a GRC.

The question I would have loved to ask the defendant today,

Why did ERCC feel the need to use sch. 9 and use the exemption to only employ women. Why, for whom, to what purpose?

leading on from this question, if ERCC deems sex to be important enough to use sch.9 for employment, how have they then decided that sex is not important enough to inform their service users of the support worker's sex?

those two things don't add up.

'sex is important we need to only employ women' yet 'sex isn't important we don't need to inform service users'.

Right.

Ah yes,it's the hair that gives it away.

As Katy McTernan believes that a transwoman is a biological woman, it’s hard to see how she could be trusted to organise support by a biological woman for service users who requested one.

These questions imply that the transcult is logical. Hint - it's not.

Extra sprinkle of validation for the men they plan to wave through?

Quite an astonishing reaction from Leigh Downes, co-author of: Teaching Emotionally Challenging Topics: An educator’s guide to supporting emotional resilience skills in higher education

https://oro.open.ac.uk/92494/1/Educators%20guide%20v2.pdf

Admonitions here:

Dr Downes says:
“Not surprisingly, we found that many students expected to study sensitive and emotive topics in criminology. In fact, the ability to engage with difficult topics was considered an important employability skill for students who currently worked, or aspired to work, with people in contact with the criminal justice system.”
[Downes] says that some are even studying as a deliberate means to understand what may have happened to them in the past.
“Educators therefore need to be aware that someone with lived experience of a case study or topic they are teaching will be in their classroom, be it a virtual, print, or face-to-face relationship.
“Whilst students commonly reported feeling sad and upset this was often accompanied by acknowledgements of how engaging with these case studies also benefited them.
“Benefits included gaining a deeper understanding, an ability to look at a situation differently and a reminder of their purpose and motivation for study. Engaging with sensitive content could also spark a passion and curiosity to find out more and make sense of the world around them.”

Familiar pieties here about kindness, how to address conflict, transformative justice in another report: How to Address Harm

Cultivating safety and care in this way is not new and, as Dean Spade has argued, mutual aid has been a long-term survival strategy for marginalised communities…Crucially these projects focus on providing care, safety and support outside state institutions due to lived experience of state failures and structural violence.
…
Transformative justice tools, like pod mapping…offer practical steps to develop a collective response to interpersonal violence. The idea here is for us to identify who our ‘pod people’ are (who we can rely on for help when we are harmed and when we harm others) and cultivate a network or ‘pod’ to address low-level conflicts before they escalate into harm and violence.

https://fass.open.ac.uk/news/everybody-needs-good-neighbours-especially-now

Little evidence Downes considered structural violence to Jo Phoenix. Or reflected on Downes own challenges to students to reflect on how engagement with distressing material might benefit them and their intellectual development and personal resilience.

NB: Yes, you may need to click the author's name if you need reassurance about the 'correct' Downes. Be assured that it brings you to this profile:

https://fass.open.ac.uk/people/jd23778

Blah blah Dr Downes you have been humiliated in a public arena and your ability to work with evidence and speak clearly has been trashed. Not great for an academic career

Thank you for the new thread and all the commentary, much appreciated

IMO they used sch 9 so that actual men who identify as men, do not apply in their twisted thinking that does not exclude trans women, because its about their adopted politic, not biological rape victims needs

In their beliefs sch 9 would mean anyone of either sex who currently identified as a man.

NB people don't have a sex at all
anyone of any sex who identifies as a woman, is.

Biological sex is rude and not to be talked about. And a traumatised victim of a sex attack asking for a woman-only service should be perfectly happy with anyone of any sex who just currently doesn't identify as a man.

And if she is not willing to agree to this, then she's on her own.

I think I've got that right from the evidence given so far?

THIS

Oh, you must. It wasn't a mere Netflix series, it was grand guignol of the finest sort. Positively Wagnerian at times.

And if the snippet posted by @TheseCowsAreSmall is anything to go by, the full judgement looks to be a worthy sequel.

There are quite a lot of rapists who don't ID as men (conveniently). I wonder how much of the session will be discussing the rapist's gender identity and being careful not to misgender the bastards?

Obviously I'm being sarcastic but given the batshittery on display today I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if vulnerable women were subjected to this.

You would be better served as a rape survivor if you went to the nearest "Men in a shed" club than going to this trans-love wankfest.

I wish there were Women in a Shed clubs. ( Not the WI). I think they'd be great.

and you would come away with a bespoke artisanal Birdbox!

We could all go and stand in our own sheds at a designated time, a bit like the whole clapping during covid thing!

Although could we wait until spring, as currently I can't actually move in mine they are to full of "stuff"

Ha ha. Yes BoiledBeetle mine is full of stuff also. I might have to hover in the doorway until I get rid of the pallets that might come in handy one day, and my dead Uncle's old gardening tools. Proud possesor of five rakes! (And a very small lawn.)