Communication on new building - room available for 'chest feeding'

[Sizzlysausage]

I got an email today about our new building (I work at a university). This explained space had been put aside in the new building for 'breast and chest feeding.' I find this so ridiculous I just need somewhere to vent (don't dare do so to any of my colleagues)!

TRAs seem to have forgotten that they absolutely were trying to replace breastfeeding with chest feeding.

There was a point at which we were all supposed to be chest feeders.

Fortunately, since that was greeted with outrage and derision across-the-board, that goal seems to have been put on the back burner for the time being.

But TRAs like dad joke are still trying to push it by pretending it's only for transmen, and why can't we support them, given they're women. Which is a little bit of an outrageously bigoted admission there, but he probably considers it worthwhile in order to keep shoehorning the term in wherever possible.

Nah.

We're women, with breasts. The primary function of which is to be the sole sustenance for an infant.

And despite having breast tissue, men can't do it. Sorry boys.

This

The pure dismissiveness of a man telling women off for discussing the harms to forcing language onto us that we don’t support and the lack of security that women now feel with males entering our spaces cannot be pointed out enough. The misogyny drips off such actions but it either doesn’t register, or that is the entire point of those kinds of posts.

I

The term 'chestfeeding' is a symptom of a much wider and more pervasive issue. Discussing it in isolation isn't appropriate. It's all part of the push to mangle and mutate language to move forward an agenda which is not only crazy (it claims that humans can change sex, which we can't) but also dangerous to women (and to some men). Women lose opportunities and are at risk of physical harm due to this ideology. Just glance at other threads - jobs lost, sporting opportunities snatched away, women being injured and sexually assaulted.

And that is what makes us so bloody cross.

It's also just fucking rude to tell women what we're allowed to be outraged by.

'Moral panic' my arse.

Hm. It surely can't be imagined that a man coming on the feminist board and telling women off for how they feel is a useful tactic. It surely just provides an object lesson in misogyny and mansplaining.

Which means a different reason for posting. Perhaps some people just can't resist a chance to come and scold women. Who knows.

Do keep on keeping on, though, DadJoke, it's very instructive.

Yep, some men like to scold women and some men scold women because they like being scolded back.

Honestly, despite the misogyny, or more likely because of it, women are so important to some of these men.

It's depressing and surprising in equal measure how many of them are drawn to this board out of their voracious negativity.

I'm in a breastfeeding Facebook group and there are members of it who are trans men/non-binary/have trauma relating to their breasts and don't like referring to them, and so they say they use the term chestfeeding for themselves. Other members of that Facebook group are very understanding about it in general. I imagine a room called breastfeeding/chestfeeding would be appreciated by them and make them feel included. The attitude from a lot of PP here seems to be that they should get over themselves and call it breastfeeding, but nobody else can dictate that. Why would you not want this group of people to feel included? Does it just make you angry even though it's actually a perfectly okay thing by itself, but it reminds you of other trans issues which make you feel angry? So this makes you angry too?

I'm not angry. I just dont really care, Dadjoke. Sorry.

I am am pretty angry, actually - because it’s symptomatic of the wider gender ideology, which is regressive, misogynistic, homophobic and genuinely harmful to women and young people (especially neurodiverse and gay young people, and those with mental health and trauma issues).

The entire movement is insidious, and I can’t believe that rational, forward-thinking (even just ‘thinking’) people go along with it.

So, yes then. You're angry because it reminds you of related issues. This thing in itself isn't actually that bad.

you can tell them Sharptoothlemonshark is a poor and oppressed minority, having had a double mastectomy because of cancer and now in possession of a chest, but not any breasts, I find it deeply traumatising and triggering to read of "chest feeding" when those of us with chests only, most definitely cannot ever think of feeding.

How viciously and heartlessly exclusionary and "othering" to use such a term in front of me

Those women can use whatever term they like,the rest of us don't have to play along with their nonsense.

And actually, this just confirms what I already think / see / believe.

My observation is that female-bodied people (especially girls) seem to transition to escape their bodies, their sexuality and the heavy burden and risk that comes with having a female body (read: sexual violence, menstruation, pregnancy, abortion, childbirth, and yes, breastfeeding - some of those fall into the ‘heavy burden’ category, and some of them fall into the ‘risk’ category; all of them are ONLY experienced by female-bodied people).

Whereas male-bodied people transition to embrace and flaunt their sexuality. Or, at least, their acquired, male-gaze version of female sexuality. Without ever taking on any of the burdens or risks inherent in our biology.

Again, it’s insidious.

And this change in language only reinforces a societal push towards a movement that is profoundly damaging.

Australia is the only country that captures statistics for transgender births. I appreciate that Australia is not UK and has a higher birth rate but it's possible to do a rough extrapolation. There were just over 300,000 births in Australia in 2022 of which 22 were to a transgender person. There were just over 600,000 births in England and Wales in the same period. This would suggest that there were 44 births to transgender people in England and Wales. The birth rate in Australia is twice that of England and Wales so it's possible that the guess of transgender births here should be doubled. That would give a number of 90. This is only for transmen and doesn't include NB people. Making an unevidenced assumption that there are 3 NB births for every transman birth and rounding up to the nearest 100 gives 400 transgender births in 600,000 total births.

Dadjoke referred to a study upthread that indicated that 30% of transgender "mothers" are happy to use breast feeding so we are jumping through linguistic hoops for 280 people per year.

There were just over 300,000 births in Australia in 2022 of which 22 were to a transgender person. There were just over 600,000 births in England and Wales in the same period. This would suggest that there were 44 births to transgender people in England and Wales. The birth rate in Australia is twice that of England and Wales so it's possible that the guess of transgender births here should be doubled. That would give a number of 90.
You don't need to worry about the birthrate, do you? Just the absolute number of births and then the % to transgender people.

Or am I being dim? I've just been breaking my brain on some statistics after an insomniac night so it's very possible...

I think you're right, @EdithStourton . Aussies may be having more kids than Brits, but it's the number of TG births in a given sample that matters.

You'd have a point if it was decreed that all breastfeeding rooms also have to say "chestfeeding". The OP is angry at a room that says this though. Nobody is jumping through hoops for a small group of people. A place chose to do this, that's it. And the OP is angry because they've included some people who in their opinion shouldn't be included.

Totally agree - this should be a no compromise situation. It's extremely offensive and disrespectful to women to not use the correct terms. Lactation would be fine "chest feeding" isn't even anatomically correct.

Why the shaming and exclusion of female anatomy @Dadjoke2 ? They are doing what only those born female with female anatomy can do - just because they rename it doesn't make it any different- they are still doing a 100% female act. They hate being women but yet still want to have babies and breastfeed?? Using different language doesn't change the reality that they are using their female breasts to feed their baby. We are called mammals because we have mammaries.This just shows what a Kafkaesque world we live in currently.
The ONLY thing all women have in common is our biology!

I don't know, maybe they get dysphoric over the act of it as well but using a different word makes it easier to handle? I haven't personally had a conversation with somebody in that position. Have you? If not then who are you to judge what words they use?

It's so illogical.

I don't agree with trans ideology. I think women having to call themselves men is as a result of sexism. Why would I use any kind of language to accommodate it?

Soz, I was just trying to be as generous as I could think.

Who are you to judge the vast majority of mothers who are offended by such misogyny as to deny the reality of female biology?

I have breastfed for about 18 months of my life.

Can't ever remember anywhere being signposted as a 'breastfeeding room'.

There's something not right here.

But I can't say it.

What makes you think it's the vast majority?

Some 63% of perinatal women are upset by the use of "chest feeding". That is about 400,000 women each year. My very generous extrapolation would suggest that 280 "non cis mothers" are upset by the use of "breast feeding". I know that democracy should not be totalitarianism of the majority but when you have a ratio of 7 to 10,000 then you have achieved totalitarianism of the tiny minority.