Interesting study on puberty blockers

[Hoardasurass]

If you ignore the bs about born in the wrong body crap in the headline, the research that the article is about looks like it may (when expanded) deliver a final death blow to the myth that puberty blockers are safe and reversible

Puberty blockers given to children in wrong body may lower their' IQs https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12960869/Puberty-blockers-given-children-say-born-wrong-body-want-change-gender-lower-IQs.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

I've just read this. Iirc the study was on 25 girls with precocious puberty, but it'd apply to any girl given the drugs. I don't understand how 'do no harm' can be squared with this.

I agree @IcakethereforeIam
Hopefully the study can be expanded to include a larger sample (though I would much prefer that they are banned but they just keep giving them out) and link it to the brain not maturing study. Then let's see what the TRAs have to say about the permanent brain damage and loss of IQ

Then let's see what the TRAs have to say about the permanent brain damage and loss of IQ

Probably that it's worth it if it makes them happier. Only, the other thing we know is that it doesn't make them happier.

Must be fake news, then. One of the things that never happens. Flawed study.

I think it is worth noting that puberty blockers given to gender dysphoric children are always given off-label. They are not approved by the FDA (or similar in Europe/UK) for treatment of gender dysphoria. If I'm wrong on this, please correct me.

So it is nice to see studies coming out. Pity mainstream media (I am in the US) didn't wait for those studies before talking about "gender affirming care" as if it was state of the art, on-label, best in class care. It isn't. And it is being provided to children - vulnerable children - with side effects that are shocking, life-long, and unconscionable.

When I hear these things, I always wish they weren't true. It is so obvious that strong stuff like puberty blockers can't be good, but I feel rotten for all the children who have been given them.

I really really hope they study further on this with focus on both on label and off label usage- if I had a child with precocious puberty, prior to reading this I’d have assumed puberty blockers from eg age 7-9 are harmless because then they go off them and have a normal puberty, and it’s missing/limiting the span of the normal puberty that’s the problem with puberty blockers. So this is pretty scary all round. Poor parents, as soon as there’s any issue parenting feels like being between a rock and a hard place.

These poor kids. I’m absolutely horrified for them and their families and the pressure they have all been put under to go along with this.

prior to reading this I’d have assumed puberty blockers from eg age 7-9 are harmless because then they go off them and have a normal puberty, and it’s missing/limiting the span of the normal puberty that’s the problem with puberty blockers

Likewise.

Indeed, I had assumed studies like this had already been done for the precocious puberty use. Have they not? Have there been previous studies not finding an effect, or is this the first time anyone's actually bothered to look?

I read about this a couple of weeks ago, so I'm glad it's finally hit the papers.

The drop in IQ was so significant in some cases, that it could potentially move a child from below-average, to being unable to lead an independent life.

Stephanie Davies-Arai, of Transgender Trend, which has campaigned against the prescription of puberty blockers to young people, said: 'Proper long-term studies have never been done to prove they are safe.

Never been done.

It's a scandal of catastrophic proportions.

I can remember years back, seven, eight, I think it was, where there was a study done on sheep iirc whose IQ had clearly dropped.

The writing has been on the wall for years.

But men have needed to create the myth of a 'trans child' in order to justify their behaviour.

I hope Kemi is on top of this. An announcement should be made immediately to cease the prescribing of all puberty blockers until more studies have been completed.

Come on Kemi. Move.

Here's the actual paper being published now - it's a literature review, going through what we know, including the Brazilian 2001 study which showed average 7 point drop.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377406442_The_Impact_of_Suppressing_Puberty_on_Neuropsychological_Function

You can download the full PDF for free.

Have there been previous studies not finding an effect, or is this the first time anyone's actually bothered to look?

Answering my own question from the paper - the review found 5 human studies looking at neuropsychological function after treatment - 2 for precocious puberty, 3 for Dutch protocol.

Only two of them actually measured individuals' IQ before and after treatment:

• 2001 study - 25 girls, precocious puberty, over 3 years - the group had average IQ loss 7, worst 15.
• 2017 study - single case study, girl treated for gender dysphoria - 10 points IQ loss from age 11 to 14.

I can remember years back, seven, eight, I think it was, where there was a study done on sheep iirc whose IQ had clearly dropped.

Yes, that's cited in this review. There have been 11 peer-reviewed papers about animals in addition to the 5 human.

8 of those papers were about those sheep, plus 2 on monkeys and 1 on mice.

The results from these studies are broadly consistent and indicate that the suppression of puberty impacts brain structure and the development of social and cognitive functions in mammals, but the impacts are complex and often sex specific, consistent with the MRI evidence of sex specific differences in neurodevelopment in human adolescence. There is no evidence in the animal literature that these effects are reversible following discontinuation of treatment.

I think it is worth noting that puberty blockers given to gender dysphoric children are always given off-label. They are not approved by the FDA (or similar in Europe/UK) for treatment of gender dysphoria. If I'm wrong on this, please correct me.

@Pallisers you are correct, but I spotted this before Christmas re cross-sex hormones :

genspect.org/the-effort-to-get-fda-approval-for-drugs-currently-used-off-label-in-gender-affirming-care/

Fucking hell NecessaryScene.

Studies done, results noted!

why are they still being prescribed? Is it because the studies are too small??

I have a puppy and we've been advised by the vet, trainer and breeder that she needs to have at least two seasons before we can spay her. This is because they understand that she needs to go through puberty in order to become physically and emotionally mature. If we can do this for dogs, why can't we for humans? It feels like people know it but don't want to know it.

What I find most shocking about this is that it is not a new finding. How many studies have to show that children's brains are being negatively affected for doctors to remember that they are to "first do no harm"?

Do they wonder:

• what else happens to developing brains on these drugs?
• does IQ return to normal on stopping blockers (this would be relevant to precocious puberty cases)?
• does IQ return to normal if you never go through puberty and instead continue to cross sex hormones?

I suppose one good thing is the more studies there are the more evidence there will be to point to in arguing that doctors were negligent in prescribing without explaining the impact a 10 point drop in IQ might have, plus other unknown impacts on the brain, when it comes to the lawsuits.

There was the class legal action from women who were given puberty blockers for precocious puberty and have suffered awful long term side effects. I don't understand why everyone seems to think it's an acceptable risk for children who are clearly very confused.

This article shows concerns since it was first approved (not for gender.confused children): https://www.hormonesmatter.com/lupron-precocious-puberty-decades-regulatory-silence/

Well, this ties in to what Helen Joyce was talking about recently (IIRC) - parents have to keep going with their belief that they’ve done the right thing, because to accept they’ve done the wrong thing and catastrophically harmed their own children is too awful to contemplate.

I’ve been saying for a while that there’s going to be a not-insignificant number of people rocking up to their GP in 5,10 years time wondering why they’re infertile or have other health issues. And the answer is going to be “You know those drugs we told you were safe and reversible…well, they weren’t.”

People think it’s OK because the NHS is involved. A friend said to me recently that she was horrified to read about the Tavistock because “I thought the NHS would never do anything that would cause harm”.

I am assuming/inferring then, that as brains are still developing until the age of 25, that giving cross-sex hormones from 18+ must have a similar impact? Hoping Richie Herron’s team has accessed the data from this study and can use it to sure up their class action case.

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that one of the more famous 'trans kids' was said to have a learning disability. He always seemed so bright as a young child.

Although, this is definitely not data, barely qualifies as anecdote and is possibly more like gossip.

Have forwarded the research on to Richie in the hope it will flag it with his legal team. Anything that adds to their case that people under 25, with or without ASD and/or other MH conditions, should absolutely NOT be prescribed this stuff.

Particularly note the section regarding the high proportion of children presenting with this kind of distress who already have neurological differences and challenges such as mental illness or Autism which already significantly impacts developmental skill development. And no knowledge as yet as to how these drugs messing with development may impact on a brain already not developing typically.

Remember how lobotomies were all the rage as a lovely, fashionable, kind and modern solution for the distressed? Look at them all, how happy they are now and how much better this is!

And we all know how this political lobby abandons children who stop being useful to the agenda or positive about their experience.

It's like watching a slow motion car crash while screaming at the powers that be to for Gods sake stop capitulating to all the fussing and bloody do something because we are going to be picking up the pieces of this for decades and it is potentially going to be horrific.

Am I the only person who thinks that TRAs will appropriate and retrofit a disability rights argument and decree that it is ableist to object to using PBs on the grounds of future lowered IQ.

And of course untill the suicide stats are more widely understood to be false there's always going to be that leverage.

Ideological parents are pretty open when interviewed that gender stereotypes are the cause of their kids' transition; I honestly once thought that would be enough to turn everyone off puberty blockers.

Interesting point about dogs. I have one rehomed from a shelter as a pup, who'd already been neutered as per their policy. It's made him grow physically bigger but very youthful looking still years later and perpetually subordinate to other dogs whatever the scenario.

Well that explains a lot.

Sadly with this topic we are in a post-fact universe where biology is a matter of belief. It won’t matter to certain people how much research proves the opposite, they have their beliefs and that is that.

I have little interest in trying to argue with adult men who get their thrills from parodying and bullying women, but I am very interested in the protection of confused teenagers from experimental and highly damaging drugs.

Bit random but on the subject of neutering…

Did you know that if you neuter a male cat young, its head doesn’t grow to full size?

You missed: study done by transphobes to cause harm to trans people.