Wtf is Alan Cummings blithering on about?

[IcakethereforeIam]

Just seems to be a stream of tripe and non sequiturs. Was he drunk? High?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12948343/Alan-Cumming-says-public-arms-Rishi-Sunak-denying-existence-trans-people.html

Does 'kicking off a culture war' just mean 'Expressing an opinion about something that some people want you to shut up about' these days then?

Now actually this is where it really is simple and black and white (using your terms).

Any space that can be accessed by a male person is not then a single sex space for females. Regardless of the law about recognising their 'gender'.

It really is that simple. Either a space can be designated as single sex or they are never going to be. I haven't discussed women's clothes shops or WI meetings or any situation where women are not expecting to have privacy while they are in a vulnerable situation. Why have you mentioned these?

On a side note, since you did mention it, of course a store changing area should be properly secured and properly and clearly signed that it is mixed sex if it is allowing any male into the area, even with lockable doors.

Whether you, personally, believe that any male can be considered a female for the instance of toilets and whether toilets should be 'single sex' or not, makes no difference. Either a toilet is single sex or it is not. There is no nuance that should be allowed that will allow misunderstandings here. None.

And I don't believe that 'most people' believe that this is a 'grey situation' because the polls have all shown that women do not want any 'male' person with a penis in their toilets. Are you about to claim that 'most people' believe that toilets should not be single sex when they are described as being 'female' toilets? Because then you would be incorrect.

“There is nuance around what can/should be considered a single sex space.”

There really isn’t.

If it’s a space with both females and males in it, it is a mixed-sex space.

If it’s female-only or male-only, it is a single-sex space.

No human can change sex.

Any person who claims that humans can change sex is not being truthful.

The Nolan principles / seven principles of public life require those serving the public / holding public office to, direct quote, “be truthful”.

Individuals who are not prepared to be truthful should not stand for public office.

You’ve misread Hellebore’s post, I believe. Hellebore’s “this man” was referring to Cummings. Hellebore’s “according to some posters” was referring to you. At least that’s how I understood Helle’s post.

You have understood my post as I intended it to be understood.

I chose to make that particular post about the subject of the thread and dissonance that seems to be around what he said.

I think the way it works is:

• if the Tories talk about the clash between the demands of male persons for access to women and girls in a state of undress on the one hand and women and girls’ right to the privacy and dignity of single sex spaces on the other, then what the Tories are doing is: launching a culture war to distract attention from their other policies, whereas

• if Labour talk about culture wars and attacks on trans people as hashtag one of the most marginalised groups in society, then what they are absolutely, 100 per cent, most definitely not doing is: distracting attention from a lack of any other policies on their part.

It’s so tedious. Particularly as both sides are using “culture war” as a tactic. Just in different ways.

But yeah, you hit the nail on the head.

Thanks, Helle. It often helps to “pay attention”……..

We have to talk about it and resolve it at some point. Twenty years building up to more women noticing

All this delay and ‘nuance’ doesn’t mean anything in reality

yeah, but not too closely as I have been rather distracted recently and have been prone to making significant typos.

But also not having the brain space to sort out what seems to be someone telling us that our interpretation is absolutely not correct because 'reasons' that seem rather like a leap of faith being made. And on one hand we are totally expected to fully believe the shift in words and terminology that one political party has used recently when they realised just how much they had miscalculated the feeling of their electorates. We are told to accept those words at face value.

And on the other hand, we have to have some bloke's statement explained to us because we shouldn't take it at face value and that we are misunderstanding it completely. And that somehow it means the total opposite.

Seems rather inconsistent, but hey, obviously I am just not getting it at all today. Well, so it seems. Obviously it is the 'nuance' that I am missing. That and I am missing why toilets are not relevant to the wider single sex spaces just because a group of women within the population decree that they are perfectly happy that toilets are not to be included in the single sex space discussion. Despite other women wanting very much that toilets are included in the discussion. But hey ... it is a 'culture war' and the government is using toilets and 'trans kids' as a distraction... rather than actually trying to have the discussion about toilets and children and the policies that impact those actual topics. Apparently the government isn't having those discussions to address the issues, they are having them just to distract feminists.

The “paying attention” comment wasn’t a dig at you @Helleofabore

I'm a gender nonconformist in terms of user names

but not with emojis…

“And on the other hand, we have to have some bloke's statement explained to us because we shouldn't take it at face value and that we are misunderstanding it completely. And that somehow it means the total opposite.”

Whilst simultaneously also taking that bloke’s statement at face value. (The “Oh come on” post about how Cummins obviously meant man and woman when he said male and female.)

😅

No, I am quite aware that it wasn't. thank you for clarifying though.

Ha I thought that

Blue top not allowed

No. It means demanding in minute detail the ins and outs of how a policy will work and refusing to accept anything other than a very black and white position.

I always post the emoji i think looks like me

🙋🏻‍♂️

thats the colours it comes in on my ipad, dunno why

I have never looked at which ‘sex’ an emoji should be. They’re tiny and the colour thing I didn’t get.

Wow.

You are missing my point. My point is defining what spaces should reasonably be single sex.
A woman's clothes shop being an extreme example. The clothes are for women. Its a shop for women. Is it a single sex space? Most people would say no, men can go in. But why?

Womens institute. An organisation for women. Can men join? Why? Why not?

It's not black and white which spaces are single sex.

Someone is going to need to let people know which spaces men with a GRC can go in

How long do people want to dither and waffle

So some people think that if you change the default yellow emoji to white that you are racist

there was a thread here about it a while back, i am actually too lazy to change the colour. I don’t see the point in doing it

Actually less so, good point. I have never seen a woman I know irl use a male emoji
But I'm a bit sad. We were friends back in the days I was quentin 😉

All my emojis are yellow on my phone including blue top guy who is same colour as the other top used emojis

I never knew people cared that much about emoji choice or looked that closely

I didn’t even notice it was meant to be male