Wtf is Alan Cummings blithering on about?

[IcakethereforeIam]

Just seems to be a stream of tripe and non sequiturs. Was he drunk? High?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12948343/Alan-Cumming-says-public-arms-Rishi-Sunak-denying-existence-trans-people.html

And you have agreed this position with every other woman who uses those facilities?

datun asked my position. Respectfully, I am allowed to have my own opinion on this without having to consult all other women.

What is the criteria for ‘nuance’ anyway?

Does Samantha with a GRC have access to all spaces and Matilda with a GRC not

Why and how?

As I said on a different thread, I've had a couple of colleagues I suspect were trans

You couldn't tell? Really?!

If is is true, it's very rare and doesn't inform at all how we should relate to people like EI who is quite clearly a middle-aged bloke.

If I couldn't tell, I wouldn't be suspicious would I. I'm pretty sure but I never asked so not 100%.
It's largely irrelevant though, just context for my own personal views on toilets. Which say not much about my wider views on gender politics and sex based rights. As I said, toilets are not my biggest issue when it comes to sex based rights.

Anyway, back to culture wars:
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/public-increasingly-see-politicians-as-stoking-culture-wars-study-finds

A majority of 56% say politicians who talk about divisions over cultural issues are just trying to distract people from other important topics, compared with 11% who say politicians who talk about these divisions genuinely believe it’s an important topic.
51% say that when politicians focus on divisions over cultural issues it only divides society further – far greater than the 12% who say this focus helps highlight ways we can improve society.
48% say it’s in politicians’ interests to exaggerate divisions over cultural issues, compared with 28% who take the opposite view that there are no political benefits to exaggerating such divisions.

Happy to see I'm in a majority who think focusing on culture war issues is a distraction tactic by politicians

Some culture war issues are low down the list of voters’ priorities at the next election. Just 1% of the public say transgender rights will be one of the main issues determining their vote in the election, and less than 1% say the same about race relations or women’s rights.

Very interesting

It’s lucky women do speak up. We’d be stuck on self ID without them.

And sports wouldn’t be changing or prisons.

Some will push the no one cares but so what?

It’s clear change is happening.

So let’s see where we are at.

Apparently, this man is not trivialising women’s needs because, according to some posters, single sex toilets are a trivial issue in their minds as well, so therefore Alan Cumming was merely stating a similar view to those poster’s view that toilets are trivialising the needs of women wanting single sex spaces.

And that people declaring women’s needs for single sex toilets are active in a culture war in some poster’s minds. And that this framing should not be considered as a silencing tactic to shame women who disagree.

Is that where we are at?

Sorry that it took so long to reply but I was literally lost for words.

You throw the dignity and privacy of every other woman and girl in the world under the bus out of consideration for the feelings of transwomen. Fuck respectfully, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Where we are at is that…

Adam is personally comfortable with using mixed-sex toilet facilities.

Adam has concluded that women who are uncomfortable with mixed-sex toilet facilities and therefore talk about single-sex toilets are doing so because they “haven’t been paying attention”. (I think we can infer that what they haven’t been paying sufficient attention to is Adam’s higher priority list of things that Adam is uncomfortable about.)

Therefore Adam considers it legitimate for actors/activists like Alan Cummings to describe talking about toilets as part of the “culture war”.

Adam also considers that women asking politicians to explain what they mean when using words such as “women” “reasonable” or “single sex” are launching a culture war.

We don’t know what Adam’s position would be if Alan C described talking about changing rooms as a culture war. Adam personally considers changing rooms to be more of a priority so perhaps talking about changing rooms would be acceptable, provided that doing so didn’t cause politicians seeking to form the next government too much embarrassment.

Toilets are the thin edge of the wedge.

Toilets are needed every day by all women so blokes being in them affects everyone.

It doesn't matter if some women are OK with men being in their loos - others aren't. You don't get to consent for others.

Coincidentally, someone has posted this article in another thread. About the removal of the ability/power to use accurate language and retain consistent definitions/meanings.

https://www.voidifremoved.co.uk/p/semantic-gentrification?utm_medium=web

Good laws and policies allow context and circumstances to be accounted for

How this would work in practise still hasn’t been explained

Man A with GRC gets access but B doesn’t? What’s the criteria and how does it actually work

Good laws and policies need to be discussed without others framing them a 'culture wars' so that free discussion can be had to ensure that all aspects and issues are considered in making them.

'Nuance' is not needed when discussing any female single sex spaces because any inclusion of a male makes that space no longer a reliable single sex space. Just because a small group of women feel it is trivial doesn't matter a jot. Just because some male people are nice and lovely, doesn't matter a jot.

The call for 'nuance' has been disguised as an excuse for telling women who disagree that special male people should have access to some female single sex spaces that they are ignorant and that they just don't understand. That then further has been used to add false credibility to 'toilets are trivialising such an important debate and discussion on toilets is making discussion of these issues a culture war.'

By the way, what 'trans debate'? Gosh... talk about fucking nuance. Isn't this discussion about women's needs and rights?

I'm not a man. Advanced search me if you don't believe me. I'm a gender nonconformist in terms of user names.

Literally hilarious. I'm hardly throwing every other women under the bus because I personally don't care about sharing the ladies with a (maybe) trans colleague at work.

Thanks for this. I agree with it all

Misrepresentation
I'm comfortable sharing the ladies (not mixed space) with colleagues who I don't know the sex of.

That does not equate to me being comfortable with mixed sex facilities. I explained my personal position to Datun so I'm not going to rehash it again.

There is nuance around what can/should be considered a single sex space.

Prisons/sports are easy.

Womens clothes shops/WI meetings less so.

Some people will want to say that TW can never be included as women.

Some people will want to say TWAW, regardless of how they present/motivations etc.

And some people will want a more grey situation where TW are considered women for the purposes of some scenarios and not others.

I think most people are in the third bracket, including me. I'm not ashamed of that despite hyperbolic claims I should be.

And some people will want a more grey situation where TW are considered women for the purposes of some scenarios and not others.

At some point someone is going to have to spell out what they actually mean in reality.

Good laws and policies need to be discussed without others framing them a 'culture wars' so that free discussion can be had to ensure that all aspects and issues are considered in making them.

Couldn't agree more. I feel like Cassandra, desperately screeching to the void, 'please take heed of what's happened here in Scotland!'.

I have not said that you are a man at all. Where have I said this?

Just to say so many of us can hear you and understand what you mean