Zoe Williams -

[Sizzlysausage]

Kate doesn’t want Prince George to go to Eton – and for once I agree with her | Zoe Williams | The Guardian

Sorry if there is another thread on this article by Zoe Williams which is rather extraordinary on a number of counts, but especially confusing is the following:

"Which isn’t to say that nothing good came of it – my experience of an all-girls’ school, followed by twice as long as a trustee of a prison charity, informed a lot of my politics, including why I became a transgender ally. Before I had thought seriously about trans rights, and the immeasurable preciousness of any human being with the courage to live their most meaningful and truthful life, I thought: “Wait, are you saying all-female spaces are kinder? Purer? Inherently less violent? More supportive? Are you joking? Are you out of your mind?”"

I think I might be struggling with my comprehension today - but I don't think gender critical feminists are necessarily saying all-female spaces are kinder or purer - although, yes, almost certainly inherently less violent. It seems like a conflation of different points flung together to construct a straw man argument and entirely misunderstanding safeguarding as a concept in the process. Is this deliberate? Or is she not able to see this? Baffling.

"...are you saying all-female spaces are kinder? Purer? Inherently less violent?"

They are though. Women are less violent than men to a huge degree and it's disturbing a prison trustee doesn't know that.

Interesting perspective on the reasons behind very privileged women being TRAS though. They had a horrid time at their all girls schools.

She was the trustee of a prison charity and still thinks those with penises should be housed with women prisoners?

I think biological female journalists at The Guardian are now required to insert at least one "I'm not GC, honest" reference into all of their articles lest they be Suzanne Moore-d.

Seems to be up for the Golden Shoehorn award.

Zoe Williams wrote in the Guardian, after John Major unexpectedly won the 1992 general election for the Tories, that she counted herself among those who wore badges saying “Don’t blame me, I voted Labour”.

Then she admitted she hadn’t bothered to vote.

That disastrous Tory government privatised the railways, causing the present shambles, among other disasters.

I’ve never taken any notice of her since then.

Hi Zoe

My ‘GC’ views as a mum and biology teacher who’s worked and grown up in single sex and mixed sex workplaces and schools:

are you saying all-female spaces are kinder? no. Very much dependent on so many factors and varies widely amongst classes let alone year groups.

Purer? yes if you are talking physically: In schools at least one rape happens in a British school each day. For girls schools, other pupils won’t be perpetrators. Don’t know statistics on boys schools.

Inherently less violent? yes. Males of all species I can think of off the top of my head are more aggressive. Edit: Preying mantis and a few other insects exceptions

More supportive? no (see kinder)

Are you joking? no

Are you out of your mind? No

My all girls school was shitty at times too Zoe, and there was a fair bit of bullying.

Do I think it would have been improved by the presence of males (identifying as either gender)? No.

Woe has never given me the impression of being very bright, or given to thinking.

I'm puzzled by the logic she has employed to shoehorn in her trans allyship.

Is it this?
>I had a bad experience in a single sex school therefore all single sex spaces/groups involve the members being nasty to each other.
But, mixed gender (I think she means mixed sex) groups tend to be nicer to their members, therfore allowing men into women's prisons/DV shelters/lesbian bars etc stops the women being nasty to each other.

In conclusion: Women need men who pretend to be women in their groups to stop them being mean to each other?

Have I got it right?

Teenage girls (and indeed female offenders) can be bitches and get into fights. That does not stop them being vulnerable in the presence of men.

I never know whether she's genuinely stupid or just pretends to be. And yes, the trans allyship bragging is extra ridiculous in this article

'Inherently less violent?'
Eh, well, YES 🤦🏻‍♂️

If you follow her argument, prisons would be improved by completely merging the sexes. Why not have unisex prisons, what could possibly go wrong?

Basically girls are all total bitches so we might as well let the men in.

What a fuckwit and no kind of feminist.

How enormously insensitive to the female victims of male violence that she would have responsibility for as a prison trustee.

Has she ever prided herself on having more than basic critical thinking ability?

Mind you, it does sound to be the usual level of those who declare women should ‘be kind’ and allow males to run roughshod over female only provisions. And those who use the ridiculous ‘but women do it too!’ And ‘bet you have a gender neutral toilet at home’. And all those fucking stupid things they believe are the ultimate gotchas.

So true...🤣

This.
She may believe it when she writes drivel like this? Who knows. But were she to suggest that penis people should not be in women's prisons she's have OJ & his little band of toxic merry men slating her for months.

Prided herself? Yes.

Got? Not so much.

In the 80s she used to write for the London Evening Standard about shagging her way around the party scene in London. Never been able to take her seriously after that, and judging by this those articles were about her level.

I have to say, I didn't fare very well in an all girl's school. I was bullied and left out and failed to thrive academically. In hindsight it was probably the worst 4 years of my life. BUT I still don't want to share intimate spaces with men or be compelled to pretend they are women or have to compete against them in sports. I don't really understand how A is related to B.

I wasn’t bullied at my all girls school (although I was uncool), but mixed sixth form was wretched unless you were cool and pretty. Maybe Zoe was, but IMO, escaping judgment from the boys based on your looks and top trumps rating is a good thing.

Zoe is equating the mean words which some women do with the violence and rape that some men do. Other misogynists make similar comparisons.

I have just deleted the next sentence I wrote which was probably "not in the spirit" and definitely sarcastic and probably mentioned an arse. The jist of it was to do with wishing that journalists with such privileges as an Oxbridge education and platform at the Guardian felt a moral obligation to back up their opinions with research, facts and listening to all stakeholders.

😂😂😂

bullied and left out and failed to thrive academically

Would accurately describe my experience of a mixed school. Some schools are bad, some schools are single sex; there is an overlap between the 2 but not necessarily a correlation.

Is there any topic ZW can't crowbar "I'm such a great trans ally" into?

No connection so tenuous she can't rope her transactivism into. She reminds me of those parodies of Thought For The Day where some archbishop describes something totally unrelated and shoehorns "and that got me thinking, isn't cauliflower cheese* a little like Jesus..."

*homework, a pushbike, sunscreen, woodlice, poppadoms, whatever spurious topic he's opined upon