NHS accepting non-binary sex status

[Yetmorebeanstocount]

I've just filled out an online survey for the NHS (got a letter saying I was selected at random).
It asked whether I was male, female, or non-binary.
With hindsight I wish I had clicked non-binary to see if it would then ask what my sex actually was. Seeing as 'non-binary' is not a biological or medical category.

(The next question was whether my sex was same as gender, which is fair enough although it could be confusing for some people).

Did anyone else have this survey request? What happens if you click 'non-binary' - does it then ask for your sex?
Because I cannot see the point of a medical survey that collects numbers of non-binary people in the population without knowing if they are actually male or female.

I was in 'Liverpool Women's Hospital' recently, and there are LGBT information boards all over the place. They look they've been produced by children at school, and have pencil crayon drawings and rainbows all over them.

I overheard one man say to his female partner " if there was a man ( nurse) who had changed to a woman, would you be able to ask for a woman"? To which the woman replied " Yes, you have that right".

I suspect that woman woollen be in for a shock if it was put to the test. But it gives a snapshot of what the public think/want.

OP I have been tracking the Rainbow Badge project and have noticed that the organisation assessing trusts is quietly inserting non-binary into their policies. As far as I know non-binary has no legal (let alone biological) status.

How are they THAT stupid? I mean...non-binary isn't a third sex, ffs.

@FannyCann surely the change of wording to 'trans status ' from 'gender reassignment' opens up a whole mess 're PC status. One is protected the other is vagueness. Presume it includes 'gender fluid ' as status?

I'd love to know what they'll do when a substantial proportion of the population decide they're non binary.

Despite whatever rubbish they spout, they know what sex you are as soon as they look at you and I guess they can deal with small numbers of the deluded folx. But what happens when critical mass is reached? The poor staff are already overloaded and I can imagine a few gaskets will be bust if they continue with their ideological indoctrination.

Who's up for being NB? Let's swamp their system.

I did a quick google and they apparently have a system for recording both now, so your current identity and sex details, so that both can be taken into account where they matter, e.g. for relevant screening based on your body characteristics and so that you are addressed as you would like to be. Sounds like a positive thing to me.

Probably the only thing that would happen, is that they won’t refer to you as you would like, and possibly you would mess up the statistics for some mental health things, as you would be recorded as nonbinary and female sex I think. I can’t see the point of giving the wrong answers; it would mean you won’t get the service you would like.

"..and so that you are addressed as you would like to be."

HCP's always address me by my name and as "you".

Unless you mean when they use title and surname, and need to know whether the hulking bloke with s prostate problem needs to be addressed as Miss, Missus ot Mix.

The NHS waste so much money on this no sense there's not enough left to pay doctors and nurses fairly. I went for physical therapy. I had to fill in a form stating gender. I crossed it out and put sex. The receptionist said lots of people do the same. They have to go on expensive courses for all of this too wasting more money.

When you have appointments with a team of people you’ll find there are several people there with you having a discussion about you and using she / her / they, depending on your preferences.

When you have appointments with a team of people you’ll find there are several people there with you having a discussion about you and using she / her / they, depending on your preferences.

Funnily enough, I have never been asked for my "preferences" but I have never, in decades of interaction with the NHS, been called "he" or "they", only "she".

I wonder how they knew?

Without a doubt I'm.much more likely to refer to people including patients as 'they' in their absence these days.

Encouraging organisations to move away from wording of policies based on specific legal obligations is a bloody dangerous path. I wonder what legal qualifications the assessors for the Rainbow Badge have.

No more unisex loos either in my local hospital. They are "all genders welcome" loos.

I think it isn't only the word "woman" being erased. I think "sex" is being thrown out with it.

What happens about women who for one reason or another - e.g.religion, trauma - can:t share a loo with male-bodied people?

Do they self-exclude from the hospital's services? What would the consequences of that be?

Has anyone asked the hospital authorities?

I’ve also received a survey and similar to OP the questions I have are “ which of the following best describes you? Female, male, non-binary, prefer to self describe (with a free text box), prefer not to say.” And “ Is your gender identity the same as the sex you were registered at birth? Yes, no, prefer not to say”

Which means that they are not capturing the results by sex and will not be able to accurately report / review the results by men and women.

im going to complete the hard copy rather than online so that I can add a comment.

To add - in particular, how do these toilets fit in with "Culturally appropriate care"?

My GP surgery has changed their online request forms to state Male or Female only, with a 'we understand this directness might upset some people' type message. So there is some light in the NHS.

They are definitely recording both when you look at the actual data fields they’re using, and actually in more detail than just gender identity and sex. It’s just the names of the data fields probably aren’t to your liking in the database. The way the specification says it’s recorded is a gender identity code with 6 values, and a gender identity same at birth indicator with 4 values. It seems pretty good, as the way they’ve done it allows them to distinguish people by birth sex when they want, distinguish transgender people, distinguish people where it wasn’t possible to determine a birth sex, and various combinations of people who’ve refused to answer the questions. It will be a good basis for providing better care and identifying issues which are specific to different groups I think. Much better than the previous system which couldn’t distinguish the different groups. The technical spec is on nhs digital.

This was a survey about the quality of local GP services. I'm not talking about my actual NHS records.

If I had clicked 'non-binary', then said my sex was the same as registered at birth, how would they know what sex I was?

And importantly it will allow safer care, as it allows both sex and gender identity to be recorded, which wasn’t the case before.

My guess would be that they would record you as having refused to give your birth sex, but you would have to ask them.

But there isn’t a question that asks what sex you are?

I find this shit utterly appalling considering the thread the other day on AIBU about GP surgeries being essentially empty and receptionists only giving out over the phone appointments if they don't say "Just phone tomorrow" for weeks/months on end. (for things like bloody smear tests or kidney infections?!!!), the amount of people replying that they'd experienced the exact same with only one receptionist coming in to defend their practise, even then it wasn't an amazing defence...

They need to stop wasting money on this drivel and get the service working to an acceptable level. Covid can only be an excuse for so long, and when there's this gender crap going on being paid for, having time wasted on as well?
No. Just no.

They are effectively asking it by asking whether your current identity is the same as the identity you had at birth. The actual database is more complex than just a sex marker.