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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Keir Starmer New Year Speech

125 replies

Coffeelovr · 04/01/2024 14:23

He's always supported single sex spaces apparently

Q: Are single-sex spaces safe under Labour?

"Yes, and I have been really clear and unwavering on this.
From my time as chief prosecutor, I worked with a whole bunch of people on violence against women and girls, and saw and know myself from my own observations just how important it is."

Strange, because he always seemed to me to be equivocating by talking about "safe spaces"

Can we trust him on this?

OP posts:
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HermioneWeasley · 04/01/2024 16:14

Don’t trust him at all and this gaslighting fuckery claiming that he’s always been clear on this is a prime example why. Just a short time ago he was policing our speech saying that “only women have a cervix” isn’t “right and is something that SHOULDN’T BE SAID”

and yes I do regard wales as a preview of what Labour will do it they get in for the rest of the country and it’s not appealing. It’s certainly no better a prospect than the incompetent tories - I’m not looking for a different type of incompetence.

he can get to fuck

Floisme · 04/01/2024 16:16

beatrix, beatrix, you've now posted three times (at the last count) on a topic you couldn't care less about. What on earth do you do when you actually care?

I would hang and around and discuss but I have to go and find a thread about growing cabbages so that I can tell everyone I'm not interested.

ArabellaScott · 04/01/2024 16:30

WorriedMutha · 04/01/2024 15:18

Labour are in a mess with this but I don't think there is any doubt they are trying to row back from the TRA bs but it means taking on that wing of the party that have partaken of the koolaid and TRA donations.
That means Kate Osborne, Dawn Butler and Angela Eagle need to suck it up.
Another nicely timed announcement today is Rosie Duffield has been cleared of the bs antisemitism charge trumped up against her and she expects to be the Canterbury candidate in the forthcoming election.

That's good. But it's not enough.

ArabellaScott · 04/01/2024 16:31

beatrix1234 · 04/01/2024 15:44

I can’t care less about what is a non issue, I just wished he would address labours plans to fix this mess of a country, that’s the real issue, not so much who gets to go to which toilet.

Which issues do you think are more important than the rapist Isla Bryson being put in the women's prison Cornton Vale?

Novina · 04/01/2024 16:37

If Starmer was actually clear, he wouldn't have to keep telling us how clear he's been. 🙄

Nope, don't trust them. So many Labour politicians, including Starmer, have said so many truly idiotic things that they're either too stupid to be in charge, or too spineless to stand up for the truth, and hence shouldn't be in charge.

Novina · 04/01/2024 16:38

If Starmer was actually clear, he wouldn't have to keep telling us how clear he's been. 🙄

Nope, don't trust them. So many Labour politicians, including Starmer, have said so many truly idiotic things that they're either too stupid to be in charge, or too spineless to stand up for the truth, and hence shouldn't be in charge.

EasternStandard · 04/01/2024 16:56

If he’s been clear can anyone say with certainty a male with a GRC won’t have access to single sex spaces?

Because he purposely hasn’t addressed this. He’s weak as anything

RebelliousCow · 04/01/2024 16:59

I think what he means by single sex spaces is most likely refuges and prisons; not toilets or changing rooms - which he will have been under presuure from Stonewall to ensure that they maintain access for TW - who we keep being told have "accessed them for years with no problems".

In order to truly maintain single sex spaces he's going to have to come up with a solution for those with a GRC or the protected characteristic of 'gender re-assignment' -which will, in effect, mean creating third spaces services and categories.

As far as I'm aware this idea of third spaces has never been broached by the Labour party before, let alone legislated for. I think he sees that the need for genuine single sex space will be quite rare.

Toseland · 04/01/2024 17:04

Well that's cleared it up for me - he says "I've been really clear and unwavering on this." which we all know is a outright lie!

Froodwithatowel · 04/01/2024 17:04

Not caring about the exclusion, marginalisation, prejudice and loss of accessibility for women who have minority cultures, faiths, disabilities, traumas and needs based in CSA/DV/DA, or are homosexual, and are expected to pay taxes for said resources when they cannot access them and experience harassment for saying they cannot? Or the rape of women in prisons and hospital wards?

Seems not very left politics really. A bit 'not me or my mates or the right kind of people' and a bit racist/ableist/homophobic.

Froodwithatowel · 04/01/2024 17:07

RebelliousCow · 04/01/2024 16:59

I think what he means by single sex spaces is most likely refuges and prisons; not toilets or changing rooms - which he will have been under presuure from Stonewall to ensure that they maintain access for TW - who we keep being told have "accessed them for years with no problems".

In order to truly maintain single sex spaces he's going to have to come up with a solution for those with a GRC or the protected characteristic of 'gender re-assignment' -which will, in effect, mean creating third spaces services and categories.

As far as I'm aware this idea of third spaces has never been broached by the Labour party before, let alone legislated for. I think he sees that the need for genuine single sex space will be quite rare.

Edited

I would strongly suspect that he means single sex spaces provided AND men can be any sex they wish.

And hoping that he can fudge and bluff this to confuse enough voters long enough to get through the election.

Hats off all for a chorus of 'the Impossible Dream'. When you are forced to examine a politician's words to work out what he might mean, the real question is why his intentions rely on you doing the work, and making guesses based on your own personal hopes.

FigRollsAlly · 04/01/2024 17:14

Sadly, the trust has gone and even talking about “biological women” isn’t clear enough when the likes of India W are claiming that this includes them.

flyingbuttress43 · 04/01/2024 17:21

No. He jumped on the trans bandwagon, couldn't say what a woman was, was mealy mouthed about cervixes and penises. Now he senses which way the wind is blowing and trying to claw back the situation. Don't trust him. He either believed the shit he was spouting, in which case he's stupid or, more likely, didn't but spouted it anyway, in which case he's a hypocrit.

EasternStandard · 04/01/2024 17:24

His proposed approach is to just not answer

He dusts off his CV instead from another bloody job to avoid answering

That’s as good as it will get. Gender ideology but complete avoidance of answering any questions

I can’t believe that’s what we’ll get. Idiot

ResisterRex · 04/01/2024 17:28

flyingbuttress43 · 04/01/2024 17:21

No. He jumped on the trans bandwagon, couldn't say what a woman was, was mealy mouthed about cervixes and penises. Now he senses which way the wind is blowing and trying to claw back the situation. Don't trust him. He either believed the shit he was spouting, in which case he's stupid or, more likely, didn't but spouted it anyway, in which case he's a hypocrit.

Whichever way you slice this, women and children were unimportant to him. So too, young gays and lesbians, and detransitioners. Not on the radar and never will be.

WickedSerious · 04/01/2024 19:29

'Clear and unwavering' is it?

More words that don't mean what they used to.

LondonLass91 · 04/01/2024 20:37

No, you cannot trust Labour with women's rights and language. Look at who he surrounds himself with...I mean, Lisa Nandy?!?!

Boiledbeetle · 04/01/2024 20:42

Can we trust him on this?

Ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

NO

AvacadoFieldsForever · 04/01/2024 21:09

And he’s one of the good ones. At any time he could have stood against Rosie D being harassed without agreeing with her. At any time he could have spoken about supporting both t and women in a scaleable, sensible, both sides matter way. At any time he could have remained scientific. At any time he could have not jumped on the bandwagon and given in
to a lobby group with almost no evidence.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 04/01/2024 22:00

He didnt exactly wrestle with Eddie Izzard to keep him out of the womens toilet, so its safe to say 'single sex spaces' isnt everywhere with a 'women only' sign, and doesnt just include men with a GRC.

I think he's imagining some state run extreme women only space - maybe police or nhs? No clue whether he will dare to keep men with GRC out?

I wish someone will be honest and force service providers to take down 'women only' signs when they have no intention of stopping men with gender forcing their way in. Then women will be more prepared and the removal of women only spaces will be apparent to everyone. Even those of us who have more pressing issues to think about.

Boiledbeetle · 04/01/2024 22:05

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 04/01/2024 22:00

He didnt exactly wrestle with Eddie Izzard to keep him out of the womens toilet, so its safe to say 'single sex spaces' isnt everywhere with a 'women only' sign, and doesnt just include men with a GRC.

I think he's imagining some state run extreme women only space - maybe police or nhs? No clue whether he will dare to keep men with GRC out?

I wish someone will be honest and force service providers to take down 'women only' signs when they have no intention of stopping men with gender forcing their way in. Then women will be more prepared and the removal of women only spaces will be apparent to everyone. Even those of us who have more pressing issues to think about.

Maybe those who sticker could start sticking ones on the women only signs that say

MAY CONTAIN NUTS

UtopiaPlanitia · 05/01/2024 02:25

I’m fed up hearing about his CV when he answers questions about women’s concerns. I want to know about what he plans to do to help us in the future not what he claims to have done In the past 🙄

SinnerBoy · 05/01/2024 06:05

northstars · Yesterday 15:07

KS is a cowardly mess. The worst part is him claiming to be “clear and unwavering on this” - I cannot think of two words which describe him LESS accurately than “clear and unwavering”.

Yes, I agree; opaque and equivocating fit him better.

SinnerBoy · 05/01/2024 06:06

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 22:05

MAY CONTAIN NUTS would be an apt sign for the Labour Party's office door, too.