Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NMC UPDATE

100 replies

Whiskywinter · 04/01/2024 11:53

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGe2yN7jW/

sex can change apparently

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 04/01/2024 12:08

fucking hell

ChishiyaBat · 04/01/2024 12:28
Surprised Meme GIF

Me listening to that!

Whiskywinter · 04/01/2024 12:36

The creator is on the NMC hearing panel and a Midwife.

OP posts:
PomegranateOfPersephone · 04/01/2024 12:38

From the way she talks it sounds like she discriminates against those who believe that there are two sexes and that sex cannot change.

I think that since most of the public share that belief it might be the opposite belief and the imposition of it by the NMC “it has been proven that people can change sex”, “gender critical views easily lead to oppressive and discriminatory behaviour” which is more likely to bring the profession into disrepute or cause the public to lose confidence in the profession.

She says there are a lot of examples about gender identity and suggests that it is because there have been a lot of complaints about it. I thought that was an interesting comment.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 04/01/2024 12:38

Its really interesting because the person presenting it is so biased to the point that it could almost be classed as harassment towards gender critical people. They're really trying to spin the guidance to make it appear that its trying to limit what gc people can say or do

Helleofabore · 04/01/2024 12:41

The comments are rather eyeopening too.

This Dr is telling people "Uterine transplants are on the horizon so no doubt we will soon" in response to people asking why any male should be in a gynae ward.

This might be true that some unethical doctors will be doing these surgeries, however, it makes the discussion about whether these patients should be in a bay with female patients even more relevant.

Whiskywinter · 04/01/2024 12:45

This person is not a medical Dr rather they are a midwife with a PhD.

OP posts:
WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 04/01/2024 12:48

This is going to be a controversial post because some will assume I'm nurse bashing rather than reading my whole post and taking in that I'm critical of nurses and midwives like the one in the TikTok.

This is why we need to ensure we pay doctors enough so that we have enough doctors. They have better education on basic biological reality. As amazing as nurses and midwives are, some of them really don't understand science at all, it's worrying how much responsibility they can get with so little educational background.

People are seeing them as akin to doctors and in a position of trust due to the status they're being given by the fact we don't have the doctors. People would remember what they are (that their focus is healthcare not medical science) if nurses weren't being left to do doctors' work as well as their own by the massive shortage of doctors.

Now we've got this massive dichotomy that we have some nurses who are incredible and lifelong learners with a genuine natural curiosity and deep understanding of the science that underpins what they do (and some who are massively overqualified) and some nurses who left school with nothing and worked as a HCA for 10 years and qualified as a nurse by doing the tasks in front of them rather than studying the theory in enough depth (and who just kept falling upwards and passing CPDs etc), and this has caused a schism between human biology as those nurses understand it, and human biology as doctors and top nurses understand it. Then we've got ones who have avoided learning much actual science but who accumulate qualifications based on focusing on social science aspects of the job.

And by top nurses I don't mean ones in positions of power necessarily, but more in terms of intelligence and scientific understanding, which are sadly not emphasized or valued as much in nursing as they are for doctors.

I have wanted to retrain as a nurse for years, and I'm frustrated by the whole situation.

Westfacing · 04/01/2024 12:49

Dr Sally is a midwife - of all people you'd think she would know about sex.

And what a condescending way she has about her!

Whiskywinter · 04/01/2024 12:51

It’s not bashing at all. I’m a senior nurse a frankly I despair of it all especially as our governing body is involved.

OP posts:
WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 04/01/2024 12:52

Also I'd like to add, surely this woman is bringing the NMC into disrepute by spouting this shit. As a former teacher it always shocks me what standards we were held to vs what standards NMC members are held to. They're allowed to speak out on all sorts of crap and spread all sorts of misinformation and nothing happens. A teacher misgenders a child by accident and they can lose their job and be hauled in front of the GTC.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/01/2024 12:55

This Dr is telling people "Uterine transplants are on the horizon so no doubt we will soon" in response to people asking why any male should be in a gynae ward.

Idiot. You'd think she would understand what the difference is between inserting a woman's uterus into a man and having a uterus transplant that connects to the rest of your female reproductive structure. And the difficulty of maintaining a pregnancy when you have to take both anti rejection drugs and huge amounts of cross sex hormones.

Even before we get to the idea that men should be on a gynae ward as patients.

Mumoftwo1312 · 04/01/2024 12:56

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 04/01/2024 12:52

Also I'd like to add, surely this woman is bringing the NMC into disrepute by spouting this shit. As a former teacher it always shocks me what standards we were held to vs what standards NMC members are held to. They're allowed to speak out on all sorts of crap and spread all sorts of misinformation and nothing happens. A teacher misgenders a child by accident and they can lose their job and be hauled in front of the GTC.

The GTC was abolished 10y ago but I broadly agree with your sentiment! If I went online and spouted rubbish (non anonymously) I'd lose my job.

Hence me using mumsnet anonymously...!

Helleofabore · 04/01/2024 12:58

Whiskywinter · 04/01/2024 12:45

This person is not a medical Dr rather they are a midwife with a PhD.

Thank you for the clarification.

It is still very concerning that any health professional thinks that uterine implants would mean that a male person should be in a bay with female gynae patients.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 04/01/2024 13:00

Mumoftwo1312 · 04/01/2024 12:56

The GTC was abolished 10y ago but I broadly agree with your sentiment! If I went online and spouted rubbish (non anonymously) I'd lose my job.

Hence me using mumsnet anonymously...!

Oh really? Every year I seem to get more out of touch with it all but I only stopped teaching a couple of years ago! Very odd that they haven't updated the GTC England website to reflect whatever they've been replaced by (and that I got my GTC registration slightly less than 10 years ago for that matter) and still refer to themselves as the GTC!
https://www.gtce.org.uk/

NMC UPDATE
Jellycats4life · 04/01/2024 13:01

IIRC the NMC library held a drag queen story time. Make of that what you will.

It struck me as weird at the time, being a specialist library with no need to open to the general public and certainly not catering for children.

I can’t find hide nor hair of it now, online.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 04/01/2024 13:04

@Jellycats4life I've dug it up for you on internet archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20220518140105/www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/events/lib-drag-storytime-110622

Pancakefam · 04/01/2024 13:18

@WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports I think that's a false dichotomy. Many nurses that qualify after years of HCA work come from less privileged backgrounds: poor, struggled with school due to learning difficulties etc. It doesn't mean they're incapable of that level of learning once the right support is in place.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 04/01/2024 13:23

Pancakefam · 04/01/2024 13:18

@WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports I think that's a false dichotomy. Many nurses that qualify after years of HCA work come from less privileged backgrounds: poor, struggled with school due to learning difficulties etc. It doesn't mean they're incapable of that level of learning once the right support is in place.

That's not what I said though? I didn't say all HCAs training as nurses are problematic. I said there are some nurses who were former HCAs out there who fundamentally didn't have a science education before training as a nurse and didn't get enough from a nursing degree and didn't take it upon themselves to learn it independently and (by implication of being the other group to the first group I outlined) therefore by default don't fall into the first category of being lifelong learners with a natural curiosity and deep interest in science.
I also pointed out that there are very well-qualified-seeming nurses who avoided science.
The route into nursing isn't the issue, it's the attitude to learning science.

Mumoftwo1312 · 04/01/2024 13:24

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 04/01/2024 13:00

Oh really? Every year I seem to get more out of touch with it all but I only stopped teaching a couple of years ago! Very odd that they haven't updated the GTC England website to reflect whatever they've been replaced by (and that I got my GTC registration slightly less than 10 years ago for that matter) and still refer to themselves as the GTC!
https://www.gtce.org.uk/

From the gov website! "The General Teaching Council for England was the professional body for teaching in England. It was abolished in 2012, with some of its responsibilities transferring to the Teaching Agency."

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/general-teaching-council-for-england#:~:text=The%20General%20Teaching%20Council%20for,transferring%20to%20the%20Teaching%20Agency.

Not strictly crucial to this thread haha sorry for the derail

General Teaching Council for England

The General Teaching Council for England was the professional body for teaching in England. It was abolished in 2012, with some of its responsibilities transferring to the Teaching Agency.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/general-teaching-council-for-england#:~:text=The%20General%20Teaching%20Council%20for,transferring%20to%20the%20Teaching%20Agency.

PermanentTemporary · 04/01/2024 13:32

I've known such a wide range of nurses, nearly all of whom have had amazing strengths, including not telling me to eff off when I got things wrong onthe ward. I thought this video was going quite well though odd to harp on only about one type of case, until she said 'it's proven that you can change sex' and I just thought right, that smug carapace is not just a way of speaking but a thick helmet protecting her against anything uncomfortable.

catduckgoose · 04/01/2024 13:39

She wrote this paper about the attitudes of medical professionals in maternity care towards women who don't identify as woman, it's an interesting read but as one might expect it's very biased towards trans ideological beliefs: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08912432221138086

Some gender-critical highlights:

Others expressed concerns about disempowerment: “I am actually more concerned about the way that some transgender people and their supporters are trying to disempower cis women and make them invisible by using terms like ‘pregnant people,’ so I think this is very complex” (midwife). Evident within these responses was a tension between traditionally feminist constructions of “maternity services” being “woman centered” and intersectional feminist concerns for making health services more inclusive of gender-diverse childbearing people.

...

Others expressed concern about the removal of gendered language (e.g., “woman”) within services used by an overwhelming majority of cisgender women. For example, one respondent said they would “rail against ‘birthing parent’ being used as standard” (consultant midwife). Another stated, “[I] would not like to see the term ‘woman’ stopped from being used in maternity services and replaced with person . . . as both a woman and midwife” (senior midwife).
Whereas many respondents supported the idea of being inclusive of childbearing trans and nonbinary people, a minority expressed reservations based on the notion that inclusion might come at the expense of affirming cisgender women’s own identity: “Female voices are being excluded while decisions are being made that materially affect all female people” (medical and renal registrar).

...

Some struggled to understand why a trans man would want to experience what they saw as a “female act”:

• Why [a trans person] might engage in a very female act by carrying a pregnancy if it was a female who was identifying as a male. (Lecturer)

• How their trans status is managed while pregnant—I can’t figure out “living as a man” while pregnant/breastfeeding. (Physiotherapist)

This further highlights a cisgenderist understanding of childbearing, where it is presumed that only cisgender women will be or want to be pregnant, or that a desire to be pregnant must undermine a trans man’s sense of himself as a man.

Whiskywinter · 04/01/2024 13:55

Helleofabore · 04/01/2024 12:58

Thank you for the clarification.

It is still very concerning that any health professional thinks that uterine implants would mean that a male person should be in a bay with female gynae patients.

I’m in complete agreement but her comment on tik tok is actually referring to a male person in a maternity delivery unit.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 04/01/2024 14:03

https://pureportal.coventry.ac.uk/en/persons/sally-pezaro

'Dr Sally Pezaro is Research Enriched Learning Lead for the Research Centre for Healthcare and Communities and Programme Director of the Structured PhD in Healthcare Sciences. Dr Pezaro is also a Fellow of the Royal College of Midwives (FRCM), a Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy (SFHEA) and a Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) panellist. '

Sally Pezaro

https://pureportal.coventry.ac.uk/en/persons/sally-pezaro

ArabellaScott · 04/01/2024 14:12

Sally Pezaro, you are harming and undermining public confidence in the profession.