Home Secretary James Cleverly apologises for 'ironic joke' about spiking wife's drink

[IwantToRetire]

Home Secretary James Cleverly has apologised for making an "ironic joke" about spiking his wife's drink at a Downing Street reception.

He reportedly said the ideal spouse was "someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there".

According to the Sunday Mirror, he also mentioned Rohypnol - a so-called "date rape" drug.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67813689

I couldn't believe this when I heard it on the news. Like something from the 50s or music hall.

I wonder what his wife thinks.

No, Rape Culture is the key to misogyny in this Tory government.

I'm not and have never been a Labour voter.

Good to see Julie Bindel is in full agreement with Kathleen Stock.

People here need to lighten up.

Do you honestly think he was using the joke to recruit people to drug women, or use it as a sounding block to make it legal?

Its a bad joke, but only a joke.

If it turns out he is planning to legislate for the legalisation of drugging women, he should be shamed. But for being social inept enough to make a poor joke? There'd be no one left in politics.

Rishi Sunak is far too weak to take action on this as he should - and sack the awful Cleverley. It is unthinkable to brush this incident away, but they will because to Sunak and his misogynistic boys' club colleagues, women and their interests, even their safety (ultimately the responsibility of this deeply unimpressive Home Secretary), are just unimportant - simple as that. Women deserve better, much much better.

Ah, the age old misogynist trope that feminists "can't take a joke" and ""should lighten up".

Julie Bindel & Kathleen Stock are misogynists?

OK 🙄

Internalised misogyny, love and political preferences lead women to side with men steeped in rape culture. Its not new. Ask any victim of male violence. Its a type of "not my Nigel".

It's somehow turned into a culture war issue. It isn't. It is beyond awful that someone responsible for legislation on this issue who is meant to speak on the seriousness of it and how the system needs to treat it as an offence saw fit to joke about it in anyway.
The Nolan Principles are lost on these people. And politicians know full well there is no such thing as off the record or private when giving an audience to journalists. It was private only in that it wasn't open to the public. It was not in the home with his friends (although even if it had been he should have gone). Rape culture leaves us all unsafe. And as someone who has to explain to students why they shouldn't say these things it was unhelpful at best.

But the rules, guidance and laws are only for the little people. Not those in government!

Like Covid >:(

But this snippet the Mirror has dug out is even more telling. ie the official position whose leade in (not)cleverly, is that joking about spiking contributes to it happening.

Just do what I say.

Dont do what I do.

I don't think I want to live in a society where private conversations and jokes are policed and reported on. That's where I draw a line and, if that's not good enough for you, well you can please yourselves. But I don't see how you can possibly argue that a Downing Street event with press in attendance was the place for a private conversation.

And I'm not going to retire to the fainting couch just because Kathleen Stock and Julie Bindel disagree with me. We're adults and I'm sure we can all cope.

Unless you actually believe he means it, it is a joke.

Personally, I think it isn’t funny and is crass and unpleasant.

But should it be career threatening? I don’t think so.

But should it be career threatening? I don’t think so.

If his joke is directly contradicting the policy his department has just published guidelines on then yes it does means there are questions about his competence and integrity.

Can you imagine any other department where a policy would be announced and an hour later at a work event, if for the people who will be instructed to implement the policy, then hear their boss make out it is all just a laughing matter.

Other Ministers have been sacked for making this type of "I'm above the law" blunder.

Beginning to suspect that because it is just a "women's issue" (though IRL not always) it isn't thought to be that serious.

But in terms of Ministerial competence it is atrocious.

I wasn't going to comment on the KS article because I thought if she wants to lower herself to be a stooge for the Tory Party by writing for a Tory paper to cover up for a misogynist male, let her.

But it is worth remember that who the newspapers choose to give a voice to are rarely the women that represent women.

I appreciate that she suffered personally from appalling bullying in her place of work, but that doesn't qualify her to comment as a feminist. And all that sneering at other women (I did wonder if JB had written it for her as that is JB's typical trademark attitude) illustrates that individualists are rarely the best people to understand how the world works.

There's now a whole strand of women who have recently discovered "women's issues" and seem to assume that through their focus on a single issue or whatever they then can analysis other situations. As well as be totally ignorant of previous and existing work by other women.

Her lack of experience shows in the comments about how there are other issues more serious, when (just as she has been) it only became an issue because a leftish paper (the Mirror) made it an issue for party political purposes. No group of women got together to say this is the most important issue of the moment. But obviously once it became public women, who support women who have been victims of male violence, did. Why wouldn't they?

And she has now been exploited by the Times. Hardly grounds for claiming intergrity.

Honestly, couldn't we say to everyone before you act just think what would JKR do?

In fact, this could be a good new year's resolution.

Lets all be a bit more JKR.

(edited because even more of my usual terrible typos)

Remarkably, the cabinet minister made the comment on the same day he had announced a crackdown on “spiking” drinks with the drug.

On BBC Breakfast this morning, presenter John Kay told him: “I think [it was] the very fact that you had made that announcement that shocked people so much that you could then make the comments you did within hours.

“People couldn’t accept or understand why you’d have done that.”

Cleverly replied: “It was meant to be a joke, and I completely accept that it was hurtful for a number of people, which was why I apologised when asked about it, and that apology was heartfelt.”

Kay then said: “When you sit in the Home Office in future with women’s charities and campaign groups and they’re looking you in the eye and they know what you said was a joke, what are they meant to think of you and your real understanding of the issues they face?”

The home secretary said: "I think my actions will speak louder than words, and my actions on this issue have been consistent and long-standing.

"Spiking has been an offence for a long time and I'm the first home secretary who has put forward legislation to help tackle this action. They will know my commitment to this."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/meant-joke-james-cleverly-tense-080746517.html

So he still doesn't get it. Rape isn't funny

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/02/jimmy-dimly-lights-our-way-to-the-glorious-gospel-of-rish

I don't think Kathleen Stock is a stooge, but I do disagree with her about this. Of course she is right that some women's organisations that have expressed anger over Cleverly's comments ought also to be expressing anger over the many serious attacks on women's rights, including putting violent men in women's prisons.

But focusing on the issue of Cleverly's comments, rather than on organisational responses to it, then what he said was wrong. If you're home secretary, you shouldn't be making jokes about drugs used to rape women, and especially you shouldn't be making a joke about it when you've just announced an important policy initiative to tackle it. Surely that's not difficult to understand?

Generally speaking I don’t like cancel culture, I think people should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.

However, on this occasion I would not like to see a man who jokes about a date rape drug allowed to be in charge of introducing new laws on date rape drug offences. There’s no getting away from it, he’s undermined the work of his department and hardly filled victims with confidence that these crimes are being taken seriously by government.

The bottom line is this tosser was on the job when he made the remarks he was being paid by you and I to make these remarks.

Kathleen Stock not condemning him isn't a gotcha (albeit a bit of a surprise,but dfferent views are available).

It's frustrating and depressing that this seems to have turned into another polarising issue in the media. However it's not simply a choice between 'sack him' and 'all completely fine, nothing to see here'. For me, the most upsetting thing is the doubling down and brushing it under the carpet. Mistakes happen, it's how we learn from them that matters. Until yesterday, he hadn't even apologised personally, just got a spokesperson to parrot a couple of sentences 'on his behalf'. And even now he still doesn't seem to think he's done anything wrong!

There seems to be an attempt afoot to draw false equivalence between this incident and women being cancelled for GC views, that somehow you can't disagree with what Cleverly said and his subsequent response without that making you into an instrument of cancel culture too.

The differences are extensive (and largely discussed upthread) but the glaringly obvious ones are:
-It was at a work event, not a private party
-He is the most senior person in the country responsible for lawmaking save for the PM.
-His department have literally just released guidelines on this very topic.

-Jokes like these are understood to be part of the problem.

• He is not being cancelled. Being cancelled is not the same as being reprimanded/asked to apologise. No one is saying he should never work again, or be raped, or killed.

-its interesting how he saw fit to joke about this particular crime, and not stabbing, for instance. Would joking about stabbing be OK?If not, why not?

Unpacking that difference is really important to understanding what's going on here. Because it's women who are being told to pipe down and stop making a fuss, as rape and drink spiking affect mostly women. Also, he had his wits about him enough to understand that excusing stabbing would be career suicide.

Aside from anything else, it surely betrays a lack of judgement. Labour will be attempting to use this PR disaster to score points (the Mirror isn't going to let it lie) and for that reason alone I would bollock Cleverly if I were his boss. It was tactically naive and stupid, regardless of the morality of it.

Malcolm Tucker would tear him limb from limb. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Aside from anything else, it surely betrays a lack of judgement. Labour will be attempting to use this PR disaster to score points (the Mirror isn't going to let it lie) and for that reason alone I would bollock Cleverly if I were his boss. It was tactically naive and stupid, regardless of the morality of it.

This is what gets me. I'm unsurprised by him being that much of a twat, but the absolute stupidity. Not making rape jokes isn't exactly a high bar to clear.