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Original poster

Home Secretary James Cleverly apologises for 'ironic joke' about spiking wife's drink

146 replies

IwantToRetire · 24/12/2023 22:29

Home Secretary James Cleverly has apologised for making an "ironic joke" about spiking his wife's drink at a Downing Street reception.

He reportedly said the ideal spouse was "someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there".

According to the Sunday Mirror, he also mentioned Rohypnol - a so-called "date rape" drug.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67813689

I couldn't believe this when I heard it on the news. Like something from the 50s or music hall.

I wonder what his wife thinks.

James Cleverly

Home Secretary James Cleverly apologises for 'ironic joke' about spiking wife's drink

The home secretary is criticised for saying the ideal spouse is "someone who is always mildly sedated".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67813689

OP posts:
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Limeandsodaontherocks · 26/12/2023 15:04

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 26/12/2023 14:56

@Limeandsodaontherocks - can you explain how talking about drugging a woman with a date rape drug is a joke, even an unfunny one?

No - humour is subjective. I didn’t find it funny.

RethinkingLife · 26/12/2023 15:05

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 26/12/2023 14:56

@Limeandsodaontherocks - can you explain how talking about drugging a woman with a date rape drug is a joke, even an unfunny one?

I'm definitely here for the explanation as to why this 'banter' is acceptable for anyone who is a Secretary of State.

LarkLane · 26/12/2023 15:22

PermanentTemporary · 26/12/2023 11:10

Welcome to Mumsnet @Gingerleigh. I've never yet experienced FWR as a place where women say 'boys will be boys' about unpleasant sexist discourse, but there's a first time for everything.

Plopped self on and appointed self a spokesperson for the screenshot opportunity more than likely. That's not a view shared on here. Let's be clear.
Gingerleigh doesn't speak for me.

Limeandsodaontherocks · 26/12/2023 15:23

But no one is saying this “ joke” was acceptable. He has apologised. He has agreed that the “ joke” was not acceptable. But most of the posters on here think that isn’t good enough and he should no longer be Home Secretary because of this. Apparently there is “ no hope for me” because I think we should accept his apology…

GrammarTeacher · 26/12/2023 15:25

It isn't good enough. It has compromised his own policy. Therefore he should resign. Politicians used to be held to much higher standards.

puncheur · 26/12/2023 15:33

Limeandsodaontherocks · 26/12/2023 15:23

But no one is saying this “ joke” was acceptable. He has apologised. He has agreed that the “ joke” was not acceptable. But most of the posters on here think that isn’t good enough and he should no longer be Home Secretary because of this. Apparently there is “ no hope for me” because I think we should accept his apology…

I couldn’t care less about his apology. I just don’t believe someone so lacking in judgement, so monumentally dim, so utterly devoid of foresight that it never even occurred to them that making such a joke to a room full of reporters at an official reception might not be such a good idea, should hold high office.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 26/12/2023 15:40

@Limeandsodaontherocks - I think it is possible to accept his apology, but still feel that, by telling this ‘joke’ at an official Downing Street reception for the Press shows a stupidity and a lack of judgement that means he is entirely unfit to be a Cabinet Minister.

That said, I cannot see any circumstances or subjective place in which a joke about using a date rape drug is acceptable, so I would not accept his apology.

PerkingFaintly · 26/12/2023 16:08

Indeed, SDTG.

And this isn't even "just" a senior cabinet minister making a random "rape joke" to women at a press reception in Downing Street.

As someone pointed out on the other thread, Cleverly has been directly involved in new anti-spiking measures and is therefore well-educated in the impact of Rohypnol, including death from the drug as well as rape, and on the psychological effects on survivors.

If it were some small-time MP in the shires who knew nothing about the topic, drunkenly sounding off to their all-male golf club, I would see it as both distasteful and hardly a sign of respectful culture towards women, but possibly towards the "stupid" end of the spectrum rather than the "dangerous" end.

But in Cleverly's case...

I'm actually finding it more disturbing the more I think about it.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 28/12/2023 01:54

James Cleverly won’t be punished for date-rape drug joke as PM 'considers matter closed'

The PM was accused of an "absence of leadership, accountability and integrity" for failing to take action against the Home Secretary. Mr Cleverly has been facing calls to resign after the Mirror revealed he joked at a Downing Street reception about spiking his wife's drink with a date-rape drug.

Asked about Mr Sunak's stance today, the PM's deputy spokeswoman said: "It was right that the Home Secretary apologised for what I understood to be comments made during a private conversation. The Prime Minister considers the matter closed and he and the Home Secretary are focused on the action that the Government is taking to tackle spiking and protect women and girls."

She said she was not aware of Mr Sunak and Mr Cleverly having spoken about the incident. Asked if the PM was worried about the message Mr Cleverly's comments sends to victims of spiking, she said: "The Prime Minister and Home Secretary are both focused on the action that the Government is taking. That's why we made sure that the existing laws recognise the threat that spiking poses to women and girls.

"That's why we set out also a raft of measures to offer immediate support to victims alongside mandatory training for doormen, investing in research for rapid testing kits, all announced by the Home Office in their package just last week, so our focus is on making sure that we're taking the action required to protect women and girls."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-rishi-sunak-considers-matter-31755069

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 28/12/2023 05:05

Well, I'm shocked, but not in the least surprised. Quite how they can square him being Home Secretary and responsible for law and order and making such a crass, horrible comment is beyond me.

SerendipityJane · 28/12/2023 10:47

Womens rights held hostage to the fortunes of a fading political party

ChristmasFairyGodmother · 28/12/2023 10:50

It would be shocking if it wasn't exactly what we expect from Tories. Grotesque.

froginawell · 28/12/2023 10:51

Is there a petition about getting questions raised in the house? I'm minded to contact my (labour) mp to all it to be formally raised.

Such bullshit that it was a private conversation, when it was to female journalists at downing St

AnnieSnap · 28/12/2023 11:08

This lot have expunged any honour from their politics. They disgust me.

SerendipityJane · 28/12/2023 11:22

Is there a petition about getting questions raised in the house?

Petition, schemtition .... you could get over six million signatures and no one would give a toss.

A much better idea would be to not give them your vote.

crunchermuncher · 28/12/2023 11:32

Well, I'll be writing to my MP and possibly Kemi Badenoch too.

How can he be in charge of law and justice and make such comments while in a work capacity and his boss not think it's a problem is beyond me.

"not really illegal if it's only a little bit" (of rohypnol). Would it be acceptable for him to make similar 'jokes' about other crimes? Not really illegal if its just a bit of stabbing? Not really illegal if you only drive a stolen car around the block? Or just ones that mainly affect women?

I think we know the answer and this is not OK.

ATowerOfGiraffes · 28/12/2023 14:09

The maaate campaign from Sadiq states:

Problematic behaviour includes disrespectful and harmful attitudes or actions that can condone and normalise abuse against women. Whilst we may not think that words have an direct impact on violence against women and girls, sexist jokes and ‘banter’ can contribute towards a culture of abuse against women and girls, and can often legitimise the behaviour of others who may end up committing serious acts of violence.

Surely James' "banter" is a classic depiction of this? So where are all the "maaates" from those around him?

https://www.london.gov.uk/maaate

An image of a person staring into the distance with the words 'How long will it take you to step in?'

Say Maaate to a Mate

Male violence against women and girls starts with words. Learn how to respond when our friends behave inappropriately.

https://www.london.gov.uk/maaate?ac-185591=185586

SerendipityJane · 28/12/2023 14:25

ATowerOfGiraffes · 28/12/2023 14:09

The maaate campaign from Sadiq states:

Problematic behaviour includes disrespectful and harmful attitudes or actions that can condone and normalise abuse against women. Whilst we may not think that words have an direct impact on violence against women and girls, sexist jokes and ‘banter’ can contribute towards a culture of abuse against women and girls, and can often legitimise the behaviour of others who may end up committing serious acts of violence.

Surely James' "banter" is a classic depiction of this? So where are all the "maaates" from those around him?

https://www.london.gov.uk/maaate

The think is not only did the men around Cleverly think his banter was OK. So did the women - (apart from those that spoke out at the time, obviously).

The very definition of systemic misogyny

froginawell · 28/12/2023 16:49

@SerendipityJane

A much better idea would be to not give them your vote.

Sadly, I decided not to vote Tory in 1982, and have not wavered since, which makes it hard as recently it would be really nice to withdraw it some more...

pronounsbundlebundle · 28/12/2023 17:10

Whilst what he said was awful, I think the bigger issue is that so many people obviously think it's a funny joke and those around him didn't have a reaction that made it clear it was unacceptable at the time.

In other words, how sexist our society is. It's not just him. I think he should resign but that will of course park this as 'ok, all done, sexism solved' for the media and probably everyone else. Him resigning doesn't solve the culture which meant that he, in the position of Home Secretary, having been involved in laws around spiking drinks, knowing it was illegal to do what he was joking about, didn't have any mental filter that this was an appalling thing to say, particularly in the context where journalists were present and could overhear.

And clearly Sadiq's 'maate' initiative is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Justcallmebebes · 28/12/2023 17:19

Gingerleigh · 25/12/2023 09:29

I see the woke mob have found this thread 🙄, here in FWR we pride ourselves with critical thinking and James Cleverly was obviously joking amongst friends.

Thank God someone sees it. It was a joke people, get over it and no, it wasn't particularly funny but he was joking

Justcallmebebes · 28/12/2023 17:20

Thelnebriati · 25/12/2023 21:44

Why is being treated as lads banter and not sexual harassment in the workplace?

Because he was referring to his wife and not a colleague? I assume his wife can take a joke, unlike you lot

LarkLane · 28/12/2023 17:31

Ah the can't take a joke apologists for arseholery behaviour have landed. How predictable.

I'm running out of bingo cards.

AnnieSnap · 28/12/2023 17:36

Justcallmebebes · 28/12/2023 17:19

Thank God someone sees it. It was a joke people, get over it and no, it wasn't particularly funny but he was joking

Show quote history

You are both either men, or very naive unconsciously self-hating women. Is it that you don’t care how this reinforces a misogynist culture, especially from the Minister in charge of the law, or do you simple not care? If you are a women, don’t you know that the misogynists and self-entitled men have contempt for you, even when you join in with the “banter”? 🙄 Of course my comments with trigger defensive bile or sarcasm because thinking it through will be too uncomfortable for you!