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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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28
IsadoraQuagmire · 21/12/2023 15:34

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DarkDayforMN · 21/12/2023 15:47

I wonder also if it's relevant that they listed all boys as potential victims, and Brianna. As if they viewed her as a boy. I don't know. I feel icky speculating.

You should “feel icky” at this attempt to imply that there’s a link between seeing males who say they’re trans as male (which the vast majority of the population do) and murder.

DarkDayforMN · 21/12/2023 16:00

wow, the Unherd comment section is always awful but the guy claiming that it’s “vanishingly rare” for women to be killed in the UK might be a new low even for that hellhole. (In context, he is claiming that the murder of Sarah Everhardt did not reflect any systemic problems.)

The way that trans activists parrot and re-use feminist arguments in contexts where they are not true is so harmful. There’s even someone doing it on this thread. There is no systemic problem in the UK with males who say they’re trans being murdered because they’re trans, and this would hold true if the activists were correct in their claims about this death. And so this man and others like him, and even others less shit-tier than him, feel free to high-handedly reject arguments about systemic misogyny because TRA arguments with a similar form are untrue.

IcakethereforeIam · 21/12/2023 16:13

The 5th comment below the Unherd article might have been written by IW. Tbf, that commenter is always trolling, both of them.

@DarkDayforMN I'm not sure if that 'vanishingly rare' is referring to Brianna. Brianna's murder as a transperson is rare. Women being killed on the other hand, if he meant that he couldn't be more wrong.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 16:33

Reading it it looks like he missed out the word "trans" by mistake.

FriendOfTimo · 21/12/2023 16:50

Here’s the Unherd comment.

He seems to be missing the police involvement in the deaths of George Floyd and Sarah Everard (the first involving on duty cops and the second a cop committing murder on his day off). Police are supposed to make our communities safer, not kill civilians or suspects.

The public protested because public protest is all you’ve got left when the police themselves are the killers.

Thankfully, in Brianna’s case the police seem to have behaved in the exact professional manner that we all hope for, a swift arrest, a careful collection of evidence, the accused being treated in a legally compliant and humane manner and the family of the victim immediately supported.

In turn, this became a successful prosecution with a swift, unanimous, guilty verdict, within ten months of the crime, despite the enormous court backlog.

I expect that there were many small failures of various authorities in the lead up to this terrible crime and those small failures probably added up to a serious failure (hopefully there will be some serious questions asked and answered via a formal inquiry) but small failures of schools, of social services, of CAMHS, of funding cuts that made services impossible to access before crisis are chronic, gradual, almost unnoticeable failures, whereas a man under police restraint dying on camera and a young woman being abducted, raped, murdered and disposed of by a serving police officer are impossible to miss.

The police who were tasked with investigating Brianna’s murder seem to have done a pretty good job and that should be acknowledged.

If only all UK police consistently reached this standard, eh?

Guilty verdict in Brianna Ghey case
Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 16:53

Yes I agree, sorry I thought he meant the vigils for Brianna, rather than Sarah Everard.

FriendOfTimo · 21/12/2023 17:08

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 16:53

Yes I agree, sorry I thought he meant the vigils for Brianna, rather than Sarah Everard.

Tbf he could mean Brianna or Sarah.

I’d like to think feminist activists never ‘welcome these events’ but anyone can identify as a feminist so maybe some do.
Women being murdered by men is (depressingly) common enough that no activist need wait long for another ‘event’ but to give the commentator the benefit of the doubt I suppose stranger murder IS rare, as most women are killed by partners, ex partners or male family members and technology (CCTV and dna evidence) has largely ended the thrill killer/serial killer offender pattern?

arethereanyleftatall · 21/12/2023 17:18

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 17:20

Have they all just ignored Willoughby's idiotic tweet? I recall quite a few names were mentioned.

IcakethereforeIam · 21/12/2023 17:36

I copied IW's tweet but I don't want to post it on this thread.

I'll post it in the General Conversation thread if anyone wants to see it.

RedToothBrush · 21/12/2023 17:43

thirdfiddle · 21/12/2023 12:34

Dawn Butler MP insinuates blame at the government. https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1737551048481386936
Shocking behaviour.

Now she's been mentioned here, she's encouraging people on twitter to report MN to the police for this thread.

In response to someone telling her that she'd been mentioned on this thread she's said:

Dawn Butler MP AT dawnbutlerbrent
Oh I wondered where these nasty vicious inhumane people were coming from.

Time for me to unfollow and report Mumsnet to metpoliceuk

Thanks for the info Tom

Im kinda wondering wtf on here, merits reporting to the police.

If she's got abuse on twitter, that's hardly down to MN. That's twitter.

Bonkers. Utterly bonkers.

duc748 · 21/12/2023 17:45

I came to the conclusion a while ago that Dawn Butler is an idiot. Mind you, she's hardly the only Labour MP that charge could be levelled at.

334bu · 21/12/2023 17:52

For those not on twitter

Guilty verdict in Brianna Ghey case
RedToothBrush · 21/12/2023 17:52

If I was REALLY cynical, given that Butler has a new book to flog, I'd say she was attention seeking...

...in addition to saying she's ignoring the police, judge and CPS and what they said, cheap political point scoring and being unwilling to look at and fund chronic systematic issues with support for kids who are vulnerable.

Of course I won't because Dawn might set the Rozzers on me for it?

What sentence does Dawn think I should get for stating this opinion though? I'm curious.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 21/12/2023 17:53

Nice to know that activists have all day to watch MN for any posts that they don't like. Perhaps they should get a real job.

But not the first time that TRAs screenshot comments and then post them on Twitter to their followers to get angry about (but then again the same is happening on here with people posting tweets).

But posting something from a different social media platform and getting angry over it is core to the culture war.

WarriorN · 21/12/2023 17:56

The narrative around this case should be about the level of child on child violence that in this case was premeditated and led to the horrific and tragic death of a child.

Child on child violence is increasing. As is indeed child on parent/ carer violence.

I hope there is a serious case review and lessons learned about the way these two children were able to go as far as they did without any intervention.

RedToothBrush · 21/12/2023 17:58

PaperWalkAndTalk · 21/12/2023 17:53

Nice to know that activists have all day to watch MN for any posts that they don't like. Perhaps they should get a real job.

But not the first time that TRAs screenshot comments and then post them on Twitter to their followers to get angry about (but then again the same is happening on here with people posting tweets).

But posting something from a different social media platform and getting angry over it is core to the culture war.

I just think she's incredibly unprofessional and utterly bonkers.

She's clearly not even bothered to check what's been said and is spouting off about reporting to the police.

Just how much of a waste of their time and resources is it?!

This isn't a celebrity. This is a goddam sitting MP!

PronounssheRa · 21/12/2023 18:02

Reporting MN to the Met 🤣

I do hope Dawn has some good evidence that the people ratioing her on twitter have been incited to do so by posters on MN.

Otherwise it just looks like attention seeking police time wasting nonsense

pronounsbundlebundle · 21/12/2023 18:03

FriendOfTimo · 21/12/2023 17:08

Tbf he could mean Brianna or Sarah.

I’d like to think feminist activists never ‘welcome these events’ but anyone can identify as a feminist so maybe some do.
Women being murdered by men is (depressingly) common enough that no activist need wait long for another ‘event’ but to give the commentator the benefit of the doubt I suppose stranger murder IS rare, as most women are killed by partners, ex partners or male family members and technology (CCTV and dna evidence) has largely ended the thrill killer/serial killer offender pattern?

So Dawn Butler doesn't want the safeguarding-focused mums of mumsnet to vote Labour then? Noted.

She should be utterly ashamed using Brianna's tragic death for political soundbites. Brianna deserves a lot better.

There are a lot of issues raised by this case where the government and opposition could potentially do something to improve the lives of young people and make crimes like this less likely to happen - I've mentioned one, better safeguarding and restrictions for children online - but no, that's too difficult for Dawn, just point scoring with no action. Shockingly bad behaviour.

Betty91 · 21/12/2023 18:06

Imagine thinking a thread that barely mentioned her was the cause of a pile on - rather than posting on a platform... known for robust responses. I hope she doesn't get told off for wasting police time. How embarrassing for her. Almost as bad as trying to politically capitalise on the murder of a child - and appalling but one that wasn't tried as a hate crime.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/12/2023 18:19

Why are women on Mumsnet responsible for what people say on a different, less heavily moderated social media platform she is obviously happy to use? Just on the say so of some misogynist troll? Well done Dawn, awesome public engagement.

WarriorN · 21/12/2023 18:20

better safeguarding and restrictions for children online

Urgently needed.

Somehow Dawn has made this about her?

She should be asking the Tory government to launch urgent reviews into growing child on child violence. It's defined in safeguarding law but there doesn't seem to be either the extra funding or action to deal with it.

AlanHenness · 21/12/2023 18:30

Butler reporting Mumsnet to the Met Police is utterly bonkers.

PronounssheRa · 21/12/2023 18:35

Tom8251 letting the world know he monitors the discussions of women on mumsnet.

Odd hobby

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