Guilty verdict in Brianna Ghey case

[RoyalCorgi]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/20/brianna-ghey-found-guilty-murder

Not a surprise - it felt very clear-cut.

I'm hoping we are out the other side. My big worry is what happens when this kids hits hit school if enough progress isn't made. We went to the head saying we were concerned about the weapons element and potential attacks in the future and put it in formal writing. We asked for help for this kid rather than saying we wanted him kicked out.

I can easily see how it could spiral further in similar cases over a number of years. I think we will see more really tragic cases in the next few years if I'm honest.

Keeping everything crossed for you.

@FriendOfTimo Sorry to hear about your friend. People are shit.

My friend Jody Dobrowski was murdered in 2005 by two men in a homophobic attack. Like in your friend's case, it was clear that one of Jody's murderers would kill at some point. The fact that the killers perceived Jody to be gay was considered to be the reason for his murder, but tbh I don't give a shit. They murdered him because they're scum, not because of anything he did or was. To me, giving them a motive doesn't make the crime any worse or any better.

Thank you for asking for help for the child and making sure it was recorded @RedToothBrush.

Once again, identifying "causes" is no use if there isn't an enormous amount of intervention across all spheres of the child's life to ensure they have the skills to independently recognise what is and isn't socially appropriate as they grow into adulthood.

@RumNotRun I’m sorry about your friend too. People really can be shit.

I remember Jody’s case, unsurprisingly I was quite sensitive to anything close to Timo’s story, and Jody was similarly doing his own thing and had the misfortune to cross paths with a psycho and his crony.

I had a little boy not long after Timo’s trial, due on the anniversary of Timo’s death. Jody’s murder was one of the catalysts that made me leave London in order to lessen the odds of my little boy meeting one of these likely-to-kill-someone types (Damilola Taylor’
was another) although as poor Brianna’s murder shows, they aren’t necessarily who you’d think they’d be, and not being in London isn’t enough to be safe).

Jody’s death was particularly heart breaking (even for a stranger like me) because his killer had such an obvious predilection for violence, having brutality attacked his own mother, iirc. He should never have been anywhere near Jody.

I’m thankful that Timo, Jody and Brianna were all given swift justice, but there is nothing that can make up for the loss of three totally innocent, non violent, gentle souls.

My little boy, named after Timo, is currently mid journey to Timo’s mum for Xmas. Not the same as getting to see your own son grow up, of course, but I’m pleased to have given Timo’s parents an honorary grandson, especially as Timo was an only child (and my own mum died when my boy was a toddler).

I don’t know if you are in touch with Jody’s family, but if not, perhaps consider sending them a card. I don’t believe in god, but I do think we keep our loved ones close by talking about them, and not many people know what to say when someone’s child dies, especially through violence.

I can see why Brianna’s mum has begun a memorial project in Brianna’s name (for mindfulness in schools), lots of support groups and campaigning projects are run by the parents of murdered or missing children (Stephen’s mum, Doreen Lawrence, Sarah’s mum, Sara Payne, Ben’s dad, George Kinsella. Suzy’s mum, Diana Lamplugh and many more) it’s hard to make sense of when a peaceful and non violent person is lost to violence.

Thanks @FriendOfTimo The strength, bravery, and honour (?) that the parents of murdered children show is overwhelming and inspiring. Much like Brianna's mum, their focus on forgiveness and getting something positive to come out of a horrific event is just amazing.

The focus now should be on Brianna, her mum, and what we as a country can try to do to improve MH services and support for young people. Not on bickering and point scoring and using a child's murder as a political football.

I'm honestly so flabbergasted by what this thread devolved into about halfway(ish) through.
Last I checked this thread, everyone was being super respectful and talking about how horrific this crime is/was, and showing nothing but empathy and condolences for Brianna and their mother - and then out of nowhere just random accusations of transphobia from roughly 3-4 users, fully out of nowhere? Because.. Reasons? I guess?

Why? For what purpose? There's no good faith anywhere to my eye.
What is the point other than reinforcing to the people here that nothing will ever be good enough?
You either agree with all of it, or none of it and face the wrath - There's no middle ground from your PoV - So you push people even just slightly sceptical that much further away. That behaviour and way of speaking makes people dig their heels in and get stubborn.

With all my heart I hope that the purpose is not purely to get screenshots you can post to Twitter/X.
Not because I think anyone here's said anything even remotely offensive or disrespectful - But because a child has been murdered.
You have to be a special kind of twisted to hear of this case, and immediately in your head jump to;
"Ooh, I'd best get on Mumsnet so I can call out their GC views and make myself look progressive and virtuous! Gotta get them likes and retweets!"

A child has been killed ffs.
Stop your self righteous crusade for just a wee bit and show some compassion. Your political agenda is not the priority right now. Now is not the time, and by your own parameters of what is deemed acceptable/what isn't - You're hurting your cause.

Absolutely!

And in that spirit, here is the link to Brianna’s mum, Esther Ghey and The Warrington Guardian’s crowdfunder (Esther graciously closed the crowdfunder someone set up for Brianna’s funeral costs/fund for the family and redirected donations towards helping others):

https://www.gofundme.com/f/briannagheymemorial

And there is also a JustGiving page that goes directly to the Mindfulness in Schools Project (MISP).

https://www.justgiving.com/remember/1076344/Brianna-Ghey

That was crowdfunder links to Esther Ghey’s projects in memory of Brianna, I forgot that crowdfunders aren’t allowed. I will self report and see if Mumsnet will consider making an exception, in the circumstances.

Both links are official, one organiser through the Warrington local paper and one via JustGiving, which sends all funds directly to a registered charity.

I posted these on a previous thread (since deleted), adding them again here in case anyone reading the thread needs support.

Support After Murder and Manslaughter:

https://samm.org.uk

(SAMM are primarily for families of those lost to violence but can offer support to friends too)

The Compassionate Friends:

https://www.tcf.org.uk

(TCF is for bereaved parents and siblings regardless of cause of death their loved one)

I am mindful that Christmas can be particularly difficult for those who have lost children, so here’s for anyone who needs them today, as well as Brianna’s family.

loveanafter8 · 22/12/2023 12:36

The moment you refused to use her pronouns or acknowledge who she was you stopped treating her like a human being.

I'm sorry, but I must disagree with that in the strongest possible way. In this country, nobody's speech, or thoughts can be compelled, not by you, or anybody else.

No-one, absolutely no-one on this thread has expressed anything other than respectful and compassionate words about the horrendous murder of a child, by other children.

You are entitled to your opinion and you are entitled to argue your position, to try to convince us to agree, but really, as I see it, you have been hectoring posters. How about some reasoned argument, instead of simply insisting that you're right?

I suspect that neither of us will change the other's mind. Why don't we stick to discussing the murder and the failings which allowed the murder to be carried out? There is an awful lot of information about the lack of pastoral and mental health care, which is sailent.

Our opinions on gender identity take a very far third place to those.

Thinking of Brianna, Timothy, Jody and all other young people who have needlessly lost their lives. Condolences to the families and friends.
Whatever the motivation, I just wonder what we are doing to our young people who become perpetrators of such vicious crimes at such young ages.
Shouting transphobia doesn't help anybody.

Perpetrators X and Y might have had multiple victims and that's a chilling thought.
So much for 'lessons will be learned'
Will they?

Thanks to all who have sent flowers and sympathy re: the murder of my friend, Timo, on this thread and others.

And also thanks to Mumsnet HQ for allowing me to link to Esther Ghey’s fundraisers in memory of Brianna, despite the usual rules re: crowdfunding sites.

Scarlett and Eddie

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-68135818

Not sure how I feel about naming them.

Well @DeanElderberry, you have so it's a bit late to worry.

Such a shocking waste of three young lives. The boy had wanted to study biochemistry at uni. Just why on earth do this appalling thing?

Brianna's father has disclosed his child's male birth name and I'm so hoping he doesn't get a pile on for it.

Their names were already widely available via social media so I suppose formal naming makes little practical difference really.

Three young lives destroyed, one ended in pointless violence and the other two thrown away for no discernible reason.

Agreed that the father's words were very dignified and I was touched by his cherished memories of his child.

It wasn't surprising to learn about the back story of the 2 young people being sentenced and their previous assaults on others.

@Rightsraptor, I should have worded that 'I'm not sure how I feel about the judge naming them'. Once it's done, it's done. In the case of Anastasia Kriégel's murder (which this case has echoes of), the killers have not been named - different laws in Ireland.

I sympathise with wanting to let very young offenders have a chance at rebuilding their lives after they have served their sentences, but also wonder whether it is better to let the full truth be spoken for the sake of other victims. As I said, not sure how I feel.

I don't think with the best will in the world they could have avoided naming them. Their names were widely known in the area and by anyone with a passing interest.

They've been named and it allows them to go down in infamy (which is something they were obsessed with). There is an argument with school shootings in America that there would be less if the killers weren't named because they don't get the notoriety they crave.

The Daily Mail has had the articles detailing their lives ready to go (probably long before the guilty verdict) and now we will have days of articles detailing every aspect of the killers.

I feel like the media wanted them named just so that they could publish all the details of the killers' lives.

the Mail has done plenty of muck-raking, makes the girl offender seem really beyond the pale, e.g. it's supposedly come out that she:

(a) did a lot of the stabbing herself after the boy delivered the first few blows;
(b) only met brianna because they were both in an 'inclusion unit', the killer being there because she'd been kicked out of another school for, the article says, trying to poison another pupil; and
(c) in addition to kind-of confessing has claimed that she was close to Brianna and did the murder so that Brianna couldn't 'leave her'.

AIBU thread about the rights and wrongs of naming them and other convicted killers.

Naming convicted killers - Brianna http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4998849-naming-convicted-killers-brianna

I feel like the media wanted them named just so that they could publish all the details of the killers' lives.

This is it, I don't think anyone really believes there is more to it than that. They just want the sales and clicks.

The Mail also had a multi part podcast running during the trial.