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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Complex situation and feel devestated.

96 replies

Ilovehersomuch · 16/12/2023 10:38

Been told my daughter wants to go by a male name and male pronouns.

She's mid teens. Diagnosed autistic. And has a history of CSA. And bisexual.

She's always been a tomboy, wears all boys clothes, short hair.
Well I say she was a tomboy, she was pink princess mad until around the time her trauma occoured.

And all this has started since her periods began and she's been developing.

It's very obviously a trauma response to what happened to her and a rejection of her female body and her pain. She doesn't want to be that victim and this is the perfect 'out'.

She also admitted to trying SH.

She is obviously very vunerable and not in a good head space. So I have agreed to the name and pronouns in a tentative been to show her support and not alienate her and push her away.

She also has ALOT of LGBTQ/trans/NB friends at school.

The SEN coordinator said there is a 'pandemic' of children going through this in the school and wider school community.

And agreed that this is trauma response.

I can't tell her no but it's absolutely killing me to do this. I've changed her name in my phone but just saying HE feels so wrong.

I feel like I'm mourning my daughter and the past has risen again and I feel lost.

I love her so much :(

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Newsenmum · 17/12/2023 12:24

You are going through a lot and you are being a wonderful, supportive mum. Don’t feel bullied by others on here into calling her she, even though you know that’s what she is. Your child just needs to be shown love and support and acceptance. It will take her time to come to terms with everything. Is there any more support you can get her?

DameMaud · 17/12/2023 12:28

TheClogLady · 17/12/2023 12:22

Names are annoyingly case sensitive - maybe that will work?

Thanks! Yes. Maybe case sensitive. Hopefully Bonfirelady will see this and be able to help

TempestTost · 17/12/2023 12:29

You have my sympathy OP. I also went through some of this with my daughter who was quite sure she was supposed to be a boy. Physical changes around puberty is often a trigger for this, it really is difficult for some kids, even without other issues.

I will say that I did not accept new names or pronouns, and I pretty firmly held the line around the realities of sexual dimorphism. I know some think that names and pronouns are superficial, but I don't believe they are, at all, I think it tends to further destabilize them.

TempestTost · 17/12/2023 12:33

Oh, just read your update, OP, it sounds like you are doing well.

One thing I would suggest is finding some activities that take her out of her own head a bit. Maybe art, hiking as a family, something like that. Physical activity can be very positive for these kids.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 13:09

How does this letter to school sound?

To whomever it may concern,

I am writing to you in regard to my daughter, x. It has recently been brought to my attention that x has requested at school that she is referred to with male pronouns and a new name. I was also made aware that x had an incident of self-harming, which is distressing for any parent to hear.
Obviously as a mother my instinct is to protect my child from harm at all costs, so to be given the information that x had self-harmed then be told she wants to use male pronouns left me reeling, My initial response was to agree that if it makes her happier and keeps her safe then I am happy with that.
However, on reflection and after speaking with both x and her father, I do not believe this to be the case, for the reasons outlined below.

  • x is waiting for an autism diagnosis.
  • x has a history of trauma.
  • x has an (awaiting diagnosis) eating disorder.
  • x is questioning her sexuality.
  • x peer group is heavily based in the Trans Ideology.
Time and time again in studies it is found that gender questioning teenage girls have one or more of these traits. After a very long and open discussion with x over the weekend I feel that x is not ‘Gender dysphoric’ or trans. I feel she is a young woman who is neurodivergent, who is struggling with her developing body. I do not feel that ‘Affirming’ her as male is in her best interests right now. I feel that is only going to add to her confusion and her disdain for her female body image, which is unchangeable. Therefore, I request that all teachers and adults in a role of responsibility immediately stop referring to x as he/him or they/them. I request only FEMALE pronouns are used for x at school. I am actively in the process of finding x a private therapist as I feel we cannot wait any longer for the NHS therapy we were promised. My first port of call is to address why she is feeling so upset with her female body and try and help her with those feelings, rather than giving her the hope that she can become a boy and all her troubles will be gone, it's not helpful or realistic in her circumstances. x has also requested that her friends and some teachers refer to her as ,unisex name;, I am happy for this to continue as I feel this isn't as detrimental to her wellbeing. Of course, in her peer groups I have no control over the pronouns used between friends and I am fully aware staff do not either. However, I am very aware that there seems to be a pandemic of girls in xs friends group that have also started using male names and pronouns, which further cements to me that this gender confusion is fueled by social media, peer groups, a feeling of not belonging, neurodiversity and untreated trauma. It’s a social contagion. Once x has had an appropriate amount of therapy with a professional who is impartial to gender issues and is aware of her background, I am happy to reassess the situation. But for now, I repeat I am not consenting to x using male pronouns in school and I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the government is in the process of bringing in legislation that discourages schools socially transitioning minors without their parents knowledge or consent.

I would like to finally take the opportunity to acknowledge the support x receives from the school and point out that I understand the predicament teachers and staff are in when a child reveals themselves as gender questioning, it cannot be an easy situation and I would like to thank staff for the care and diligence they show x in her school journey. I just feel that this path is not the right one for her at the moment, I believe there are probably many children that are genuinely gender questioning but x, in my opinion as a parent, is not one of them and I would like to explore the reasons behind her feeling this way before using any affirming language.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 13:21

That's a brilliant letter OP. 2 tiny suggestions:

  1. Address it to an identified senior member of staff and cc it to the Head. That way it can't be ignored.
  2. Where you say you're happy for her choice of unisex name to be used, specify that this is not to be changed on any legal documents (register etc)?

You're handling this difficult situation with such insight and compassion. Hope you're getting some support for yourself in all this.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 13:25

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 13:21

That's a brilliant letter OP. 2 tiny suggestions:

  1. Address it to an identified senior member of staff and cc it to the Head. That way it can't be ignored.
  2. Where you say you're happy for her choice of unisex name to be used, specify that this is not to be changed on any legal documents (register etc)?

You're handling this difficult situation with such insight and compassion. Hope you're getting some support for yourself in all this.

Thankyou for the suggestions.

I've also written on there that I'm asking for the letter to be added to her SEN file.

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Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 13:28

I don't actually know who to send it to?

Head of SEN? Head of year?

OP posts:
aramox1 · 17/12/2023 13:34

To whom, not whomever. And I would keep it short as possible. Very best of luck.

ArthurbellaScott · 17/12/2023 13:34

Excellent letter.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 13:37

aramox1 · 17/12/2023 13:34

To whom, not whomever. And I would keep it short as possible. Very best of luck.

I'm not really bothered about the pedantics of grammar at the moment, I think that's probably the last thing on my mind but thanks!

Also I could have just said 'don't call my daughter he'

But I wanted to point out to them some of the reasons this is happening and that they fueling the fire by keeping this information away from parents.

OP posts:
Echobelly · 17/12/2023 13:43

I might avoid using terms like 'gender ideology', 'social contagion' and 'pandemic' in there because those are loaded terms that might cause someone to write you off as 'oh, she's just transphobic' - the rest of your tone is much more objective and reasonable.

SheIsStuck23 · 17/12/2023 13:50

Echobelly · 17/12/2023 13:43

I might avoid using terms like 'gender ideology', 'social contagion' and 'pandemic' in there because those are loaded terms that might cause someone to write you off as 'oh, she's just transphobic' - the rest of your tone is much more objective and reasonable.

I agree with this OP.

Keep your letter factual and solely based on your daughter, do not bring other pupils, or her friends, or school group behaviour etc into it because it could be interpreted as you being biased and potentially transphobic and accusatory which I think risks your concerns being brushed off somewhat.

The letter is otherwise very, very good.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 13:52

Echobelly · 17/12/2023 13:43

I might avoid using terms like 'gender ideology', 'social contagion' and 'pandemic' in there because those are loaded terms that might cause someone to write you off as 'oh, she's just transphobic' - the rest of your tone is much more objective and reasonable.

But I don't really care if they think that. She's my daughter and I'm telling them I don't want them transitioning her behind my back.

What they think of my personal beliefs is inconsequential and all those terms are correct. It is a contagion and ideology.

How else can you explain a group of 6 teenage white girls in a friend's group all socially transitioning?

I feel like the time has come for me to be honest about what is happening.

OP posts:
MidWineCent · 17/12/2023 13:55

Echobelly · 17/12/2023 13:43

I might avoid using terms like 'gender ideology', 'social contagion' and 'pandemic' in there because those are loaded terms that might cause someone to write you off as 'oh, she's just transphobic' - the rest of your tone is much more objective and reasonable.

I agree.

OP, I am not a Tory but I love Kemi Badenoch and the speech she gave in Parliament last week. But used the words "social contagion" and "epidemic". We know that this is true, but staff in education and CAMHS from my experience are anti-Tory because of the huge cut-backs in funding and so will rail against these words if they've read any of the broadsheet newspapers.
I'd say swap "social contagion" with "trend".
It's a great letter, you are speaking from the heart. Please though do reference the Cass Review - say that you've read this and that you are worried that they have not fully taken onboard the implications of social transitioning?

Lots of ❤️❤️

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 13:56

Echobelly · 17/12/2023 13:43

I might avoid using terms like 'gender ideology', 'social contagion' and 'pandemic' in there because those are loaded terms that might cause someone to write you off as 'oh, she's just transphobic' - the rest of your tone is much more objective and reasonable.

Respectfully I disagree.
We mustn't be frightened of using accurate language. It's the tiptoeing round these issues that have allowed this to spread amongst children and young people. There is a social contagion in relation to gender ideology amongst the young and it's doing massive harm to the most vulnerable who are unable to critically evaluate it.
Parents must be allowed to accurately identify what's being done to the young and anyone who dismisses a powerful letter like this as transphobia really becomes part of the problem for the OP's daughter.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 13:56

Cross posted with Ilovehersomuch

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 14:06

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 13:28

I don't actually know who to send it to?

Head of SEN? Head of year?

Whoever you think is most influential in terms of your DD?

I'd also copy it to the Head with a brief note asking them to confirm that this has been actioned by the school? The Head has the ultimate accountability for what their staff are doing and is the one who can put a stop to it if they realise that parents are complaining.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 14:08

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 13:56

Respectfully I disagree.
We mustn't be frightened of using accurate language. It's the tiptoeing round these issues that have allowed this to spread amongst children and young people. There is a social contagion in relation to gender ideology amongst the young and it's doing massive harm to the most vulnerable who are unable to critically evaluate it.
Parents must be allowed to accurately identify what's being done to the young and anyone who dismisses a powerful letter like this as transphobia really becomes part of the problem for the OP's daughter.

That's exactly how I feel. How is language too strong when it describes what is happening to our kids?

I'm not going to tiptoe using 'kind' language because being too strong gets me labelled as transphobic. The only way not to be labelled transphobic these days is to sit back and allow your child to be brainwashed with no action. Thats lovely and inclusive!

I feel like I need to be absolutely clear in what I am feeling and saying.

OP posts:
Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 14:14

SheIsStuck23 · 17/12/2023 13:50

I agree with this OP.

Keep your letter factual and solely based on your daughter, do not bring other pupils, or her friends, or school group behaviour etc into it because it could be interpreted as you being biased and potentially transphobic and accusatory which I think risks your concerns being brushed off somewhat.

The letter is otherwise very, very good.

I feel like mentioning her whole friends group are transitioning socially is vital. It proves that it's a group, social behavior. A club of sorts. Something to join and belong to amongst peers, rather than a deep and serious issue that's been present since birth.

This all started directly in conjunction with these friends transitioning.

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 17/12/2023 14:15

It's normal for abused children to be repulsed by the gender, who assaulted them. However it's worrying that children are suckered easily in to the lgbq crowd. When it might not be a good fit for them. She needs counselling and coming to terms with what has happened. Especially since it's triggered her eating disorder. I was sa as a child, I also developed an eating disorder. I wished that I was a big guy instead of a girl, as I felt vulnerable and wanted to feel powerful. As I grew up, I realised that I don't actually want to be a big guy, just wanted control and power over my body. I wouldn't support your child to become trans until they've been through counselling.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 14:15

I don't feel I'm equipt enough to mention the cass report. I wouldn't know how to do that or apply the review to the situation and make it relevant.

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RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 17/12/2023 14:20

I don’t think you need to mention the Cass Report. It’s great that your letter reads as your viewpoint, not as what other people, or lobby groups, have written.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 14:23

Your letter's excellent and to the point. Not sure you need to add in anything else?
The guidelines (hopefully next week) will go some way to remind schools that they don't have the legal power to transition children in secret from parents and the impact of Cass will no doubt be included in them.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 14:27

Beautiful3 · 17/12/2023 14:15

It's normal for abused children to be repulsed by the gender, who assaulted them. However it's worrying that children are suckered easily in to the lgbq crowd. When it might not be a good fit for them. She needs counselling and coming to terms with what has happened. Especially since it's triggered her eating disorder. I was sa as a child, I also developed an eating disorder. I wished that I was a big guy instead of a girl, as I felt vulnerable and wanted to feel powerful. As I grew up, I realised that I don't actually want to be a big guy, just wanted control and power over my body. I wouldn't support your child to become trans until they've been through counselling.

I'm so sorry :(

It's a situation noone should be in.

OP posts: