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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Complex situation and feel devestated.

96 replies

Ilovehersomuch · 16/12/2023 10:38

Been told my daughter wants to go by a male name and male pronouns.

She's mid teens. Diagnosed autistic. And has a history of CSA. And bisexual.

She's always been a tomboy, wears all boys clothes, short hair.
Well I say she was a tomboy, she was pink princess mad until around the time her trauma occoured.

And all this has started since her periods began and she's been developing.

It's very obviously a trauma response to what happened to her and a rejection of her female body and her pain. She doesn't want to be that victim and this is the perfect 'out'.

She also admitted to trying SH.

She is obviously very vunerable and not in a good head space. So I have agreed to the name and pronouns in a tentative been to show her support and not alienate her and push her away.

She also has ALOT of LGBTQ/trans/NB friends at school.

The SEN coordinator said there is a 'pandemic' of children going through this in the school and wider school community.

And agreed that this is trauma response.

I can't tell her no but it's absolutely killing me to do this. I've changed her name in my phone but just saying HE feels so wrong.

I feel like I'm mourning my daughter and the past has risen again and I feel lost.

I love her so much :(

OP posts:
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Frogglingalong · 16/12/2023 17:34

Secondary teacher with a mental health role here. (And, full disclosure, queer woman who had massive issues with mental health, self harm and body dysmorphia as a young person) Have met quite a few young people in similar situations. Some seem happier after socially transitioning. Some really really don't - I think you are very justified in being cautious.

As someone said, I think you really need to prioritise counselling, having spoken to a therapist before to raise your concerns. Has she spoken to you about her experience of SA? How comfortable are you with talking to her about it? Has she talked to anyone about it?? What about the self harm and eating disorder - what support is she receiving with these? How informed are you about these subjects?

As you'll know, certain factors (autism, mental health issues, realising they aren't straight) are leading a lot of young women to feel uncomfortable in themselves and identity and the idea they might be male answers a lot of these questions - especially if that idea is supported through peers and social media. Can you subtly provide examples of women she might identify more with? Like artists, scientists etc depending on her interests? Buy her books, take her to exhibitions, films etc. In particular, queer female role models. I was really into bands like Bikini Kill, Sleater Kinney etc as a teen - plenty of rage about things like sexual violence in that music that might be an outlet.

Ilovehersomuch · 16/12/2023 17:49

The self harm was a minor, one off incident that she didn't get anything from and said she wouldn't do again.

Her eating disorder is ARFID, Very unknown really and can't get much help with it.

Since disclosure its been nothing but waiting lists so she's not spoken to anyone about the historical situation.

But she does have in school counselling weekly.

OP posts:
AnnaMagnani · 16/12/2023 18:27

Do you know the qualifications and experience of the school counsellor?

A lot of schools employ someone who is not really qualified and this is a complex and challenging situation for a highly qualified and experienced professional.

If she isn't seeing the right person they could be making a bad situation worse.

Ilovehersomuch · 16/12/2023 18:32

AnnaMagnani · 16/12/2023 18:27

Do you know the qualifications and experience of the school counsellor?

A lot of schools employ someone who is not really qualified and this is a complex and challenging situation for a highly qualified and experienced professional.

If she isn't seeing the right person they could be making a bad situation worse.

In all honesty she doesn't talk about much with the counsellor. She definitely has not talked about the events themselves. And she hasn't talked about her gender. It's very generic and she spends most of the session drawing and chatting about school and home.

It's been admitted to me that it's more to keep DD feeling like she's not been abandoned whilst waiting for specialist help.

She is supposed to have had 6 sessions from school but she's seen her every week for a year in a less official capacity just so she has someone to touch in with.

She shows me the pictures she's drawn there every Monday.

OP posts:
ArthurbellaScott · 16/12/2023 18:44

OP, it's great that she's sharing the drawings with you, and she's talking to you about how she's feeling. That's really important for her, and you, to have that connection.

I agree with PP about role models. If there's an area she's interested in - art, science, sport, whatever, I'm sure we can find some good, strong, women to look into.

Are BEAT no use for the ED?

ForTonightGodisaDJ · 16/12/2023 18:58

Just to add to what I said previously, you don't need to accept this. I hope you find the strength from somewhere to fight. It's going to be tough.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/12/2023 18:59

BEAT is an excellent charity - professional, well run, safeguarding focussed. I'm sure you've considered much of this, so hope this isn't drowning you with info you've already considered OP? But we do know that trans issues in teenagers so often overshadow their other mental health vulnerabilities which then get ignored and go untreated. Here's their link in case it's useful:

https://www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/get-information-and-support/

Get information and support - Beat

Need information or support for an eating disorder? Find out about how to seek help including services that Beat offer.

https://www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/get-information-and-support

cerisepanther73 · 16/12/2023 19:05

@Ilovehersomuch
reading your post immediately sprang to mind along the same lines as @Echobelly

Good sound sage advice 👌

Mrsttcno1 · 16/12/2023 19:36

She really needs proper counselling OP, before she goes too far down this path. If she has counselling to deal with what she has been through and she still feels the same then there’s not a lot you can do but support her, but she needs therapy to address those things to clear her mind to truly think about what she wants.

Don’t wait around on NHS referrals, ask the GP for recommendations and book some appointments yourself for your child. It may take a few tries to find the right fit but the right counsellor makes all the difference. If after that she still feels the same then all you can do is get on board, but I suspect as you say this may be a trauma response and once you deal with that underlying trauma the rest may well deal with itself.

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 09:48

CAN ANYONE PLEASE HELP ME WRITE A LETTER TO SCHOOL

To ask they refrain from ferefeing to my daughter as he/him/ they whilst I find a professional therapist to help her work through this.

And that young girls who have sexual trauma and autism shouldn't be encouraged down this path but be questioned.
----

I sat down with her yesterday and had a long, deep talk with lots of tears but she seemed to really understand and accept what I was saying.

That if she feels it would be easier to be a boy and I could go back in time and flip a switch in my belly and make her one I would but I can't.

And being a transboy won't fix anything. You'll still be the same person, you'll still ahve the same body, the same past. You'll just be asking people externally to call you something else, something you'll never be able to achieve or live upto. You'll always feel like a disappointment to yourself as you cannot physically become male.

The best you can achieve is a pair os scars below your breasts after an operation that was designed for cancer patients, a muiltated arm and a roll or arms skin that does not look anything like a penis with a pump in it and perhaps no sexual sensation.

I said we need to deal with WHY do you feel so uncomfortable and unhappy and try and sort that out first.

I said I won't call her he/him because it's facilitating something that will just escalate.

I will use the name she wants as its a unisex name anyways.

She seemed really relieved TBH.

She just cried and said she doesn't wnat any of that stuff. Surgery etc... She just wants to stop feeling so bad about herself.

OP posts:
ArthurbellaScott · 17/12/2023 10:04

Wow, OP. You are doing so very well. Well done. I'll seek out some resources for schools, but just wanted to say you have my admiration.

Sometimes what children need is a firm and compassionate boundary. It sounds like you found it. She wants and needs to jnow that you will protect her and care for her.

ArthurbellaScott · 17/12/2023 10:08

Actually looking through that list it's letters for other specific issues, I don't see one for pronouns/social transitioning.

May be worth contacting SSA directly for advice.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/12/2023 10:14

Well done OP - that sounds to be progress. Recognising that the trans issue is a diversion from tackling her fundamental unhappiness is so important.
Although not a letter, this is written by a clinical psychologist and explains clearly why socially transitioning teenagers is incredibly dangerous.
I suspect that the draft guidelines for schools about trans issues will be out next week and am as certain as I can be that it will state that schools cannot socially transition children if parents don't consent.

So you simply need to tell them that you do not consent to them transitioning her in any way - and I'd give them this:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

When a teenager says they're transgender - Transgender Trend

What's the best approach when a teenager says they're transgender? Are there risks in the affirmation and social transition approach?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender

Beginningless · 17/12/2023 10:16

Well done OP, you are handling such a difficult situation so well. Your poor daughter. She’s lucky to have you.

ArthurbellaScott · 17/12/2023 10:17

Oh, well done Mrs Overton!

You could also add Hillary Cass' statement, that 'social transitioning is not a neutral act', OP.

Social transition – this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.” (p62)

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2022/03/26/the-cass-review-into-gender-identity-services/

Ah, and here is advice for your situation:

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#Advice_Note_on_Social_Transitioning_by_Schools

The Cass Review into Gender Identity Services - Safe Schools Alliance UK

The Interim Report on the Cass Review of Gender Identity Services for Children contains findings that schools must take note of and act on...

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2022/03/26/the-cass-review-into-gender-identity-services

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 10:47

Berthatydfil · 17/12/2023 10:31

Thankyou. I've contacted her via twitter.

I'm just reaching out to anyone who may be able to help.

OP posts:
rolsete · 17/12/2023 11:56

What is the acronym SH in your post op?

Ilovehersomuch · 17/12/2023 11:59

rolsete · 17/12/2023 11:56

What is the acronym SH in your post op?

Self harm.

OP posts:
TheClogLady · 17/12/2023 12:14

I agree with being extremely gentle to preserve your relationship.

it’s great that the SENco can see the bigger picture and that the social contagion in school is obvious, nothing worse than the authorities merrily transing a teen without parental knowledge.

Perhaps one of your own friends or sister’s could play an ‘Auntie Terf’ role and be the one to ask careful questions and present alternative narratives? A grown up tomboy who can visually demonstrate that being GNC does not mean being born in the wrong body? Not exactly a ‘bad cop’ but perhaps a ‘curious cop’?

TheClogLady · 17/12/2023 12:15

Ignore that, I missed your update!

DameMaud · 17/12/2023 12:17

I think Bonfirelady had great success with her communications with her school under similar circumstances. I tried to find the thread on this as it contained her letters I believe- but I can't find it!
Maybe someone else, or Bonfirelady can help.
(Her name is not coming up for me on the @ list! Hoping she is still around!)

Lots of admiration, compassion, and hope for you OP

TheClogLady · 17/12/2023 12:21

@bonfirelady

TheClogLady · 17/12/2023 12:22

Names are annoyingly case sensitive - maybe that will work?

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