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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Re a bit of light reading

37 replies

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 10:42

Hi all. I am a reader of the boards on feminism and know how I feel regarding men being men and women being women but I am not well read about such things nor know where to start.

I would love to join in sometimes but feel somewhat in awe of you all and definitely not well educated about people, things or in fact feminism.

My youngest (at uni) regularly calls me a terf though so I assume I am in the right place!

Has anyone got any reading suggestions or Crash guide type thing. What I should be reading? I would really appreciate it:

Sorry if I have offended anyone or used the wrong terminology. Am on a bit of a voyage of self discovery!

OP posts:
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6
KatBurglar · 07/12/2023 10:56

Time To Think by Hannah Barnes about the scandal that is the Tavistock is excellent.

Trans by Helen Joyce gives the background of how we got to where we are.

They would be my starting points, there’s loads more.

ArthurbellaScott · 07/12/2023 11:05

Feminism itself is a bloody huge subject, tbh. Lots of other women are better read and informed than me, but there is loads on the net.

Lots of different angles, subjects and approaches, lots of disagreement. You could look into the following:

Mary Wollstonecroft https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3420
Simone de Beauvoir - The Second Sex
Germaine Greer - The FEmale Eunuch, Whole Woman
Andrea Dworkin
bell hooks
Dale Spender

TBH I've learned more from anonymous women on here than any other source.

So there is a first, second, third and perhaps even fourth wave of feminism.

TawnyT · 07/12/2023 11:08

Book-wise Material Girls by Kathleen Stock is a good place to start!

Also I follow a few people on substack that are actively researching/talking about trans ideology and find their perspectives really insightful, these two are my recommendations -

  • Eliza Mondegreen is looking at online trans communities and how they influence young girls, and she does a regular book club and reading recommendations
https://open.substack.com/pub/elizamondegreen?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=593og
  • PITT - Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans. This one is heartbreaking at times, but also interesting and insightful to read parents with trans children reflect on how their situation came to be
https://open.substack.com/pub/pitt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=593og

gender:hacked by Eliza Mondegreen | Substack

All things gender identity. Click to read gender:hacked by Eliza Mondegreen, a Substack publication with thousands of subscribers.

https://open.substack.com/pub/elizamondegreen?r=593og

TawnyT · 07/12/2023 11:16

Oh and if you're a fan of podcasts I recently discovered 'Mother, Maiden, Matriach' by Louise Perry, she has some fabulous guests on amd talks all things feminism and gender in a really reasoned and questioning manner.

Also 'the Witchtrials of JK Rowling' is a great listen, charting her route to 'terfhood'

Original poster
stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 11:31

Thanks everyone. Appreciate it.

OP posts:
JellySaurus · 07/12/2023 12:32

Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. Not specifically about trans issues, but a good explanation of how the erasure of women is normalised as part of society.

Boiledbeetle · 07/12/2023 15:50

@stomachameleon If you fancy humour with your reading them there is of course two wonderful books of sweary poetry written by some of the women of Mumsnets FWR board which cover quite a lot of events that have happened over the last 12 months!

Under the Duvet of Darkness
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C129WKDD

Under the Duvet of Darkness volume two Lurking Merkins
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CMJZ43VZ

JoandArcFeminist · 07/12/2023 15:56

Not reading but I'd search out Amy Sousa on YouTube! She breaks things down clearly but deeply from a feminist perspective with an emphasis on embodiment.

LarkLane · 07/12/2023 17:33

Hi @stomachameleon I saw you on the Miners Strike thread, thanks for posting on there, it was important that you did.

I lurked for years on here. Then I realised the regulars know the difference between someone asking genuine questions, and those who are here to cause botherations.

Some great suggestions. Dip in and out. Take your time. Join in and discuss.

There are no exams to pass, no need to sound as though you've swallowed a dictionary, just be yourself and welcome! Flowers

Woman2023 · 07/12/2023 18:08

ArthurbellaScott · 07/12/2023 10:57

This is good on a brief and entertaining history of genderism up until about 2018:

https://janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

I'm in the middle of that at the moment, some bits are not light reading, but generally quite interesting. I think Judith Butler's writing is so confusing it infects anyone who writes about it as well.

Meanacademic · 07/12/2023 18:28

Hi and welcome, OP!
Don’t be intimidated by jargon, long reading lists or your university-educated offspring telling you that you’re an uninformed ‘terf’. I work at a university and I know all the dirty tricks academics employ to promote very questionable political pet projects. It’s a very tricky balancing act, trying to respect learning and intellect but also probing claims that just don’t make sense. Just keep asking those questions …

PencilsInSpace · 07/12/2023 18:33

KatBurglar · 07/12/2023 10:56

Time To Think by Hannah Barnes about the scandal that is the Tavistock is excellent.

Trans by Helen Joyce gives the background of how we got to where we are.

They would be my starting points, there’s loads more.

If I was to recommend three books it would be these two, plus Sheila Jeffreys Unpacking Queer Politics. She has written a more recent one that's more specifically about gender (Gender Hurts) but I think UQP gives a wider overview of the motivations of not just the T but the Q+ movements.

PencilsInSpace · 07/12/2023 18:40

I haven't read it myself yet, but if you're looking for an accessible, up-to-date crash-course on feminism then Julie Bindel's 'Feminism for Women' gets good reviews.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 07/12/2023 21:56

Gina Rippon's The gendered brain is not exactly light reading - it's very clearly written, but goes into a lot of very technical detail of both neurology and the mechanisms for investigating it. But it gives a fascinating, properly evidenced argument against the female brain in male body (or vice versa) rhetoric.

And the first few chapters of history will give you a massive reading list. I had to stop every couple of paragraphs to make a note of people I wanted to know more about.

Crankywiddershins · 07/12/2023 22:21

I know what you mean about feeling a bit overawed by the knowledge and strength of some of the contributors here, I spent ages reading and thinking that I had nothing to add, they're all really lovely (well, most of 'em 😉)
Just keep reading and you'll find the areas where you feel like you have something to add and someone will find it helpful. I think the main thing I get from this board is not about the gender wars, it's seeing the female solidarity in action. I've found the sisterhood (but not the cis-terhood)

Original poster
stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 22:52

@Crankywiddershins I do know what you mean. I find myself googling when I am reading threads. I just feel like it's something I should be better read about... I owe myself that.
Also if my irritating sons are going to call me names then I would like to know what exactly what I am being accused of and having some info to batt back.
I had my children really young. I went to uni with them and brought them up by myself but they do judge/ like to treat me like a batty old dear.
I come from bolshy stock (see miners strike) but very much strong women who stayed in clearly defined roles. It's what I am struggling with tbh.
Thank you all for your help. Lots of things I can ask for Xmas wise :)

OP posts:
TheSandgroper · 08/12/2023 00:46

Not a book but youtube or podcast interviews and panels with Elaine Miller. As a women’s health specialist physio, she has much practical evidence to draw on that lots of others don’t have.

And she is wonderful. I want to share a bottle of wine with her. Also known as Gusset Gripper.

Crankywiddershins · 08/12/2023 07:10

TheSandgroper · 08/12/2023 00:46

Not a book but youtube or podcast interviews and panels with Elaine Miller. As a women’s health specialist physio, she has much practical evidence to draw on that lots of others don’t have.

And she is wonderful. I want to share a bottle of wine with her. Also known as Gusset Gripper.

Not only that, she's very very funny, and her Merkin is world famous.

Boiledbeetle · 08/12/2023 07:22

Crankywiddershins · 08/12/2023 07:10

Not only that, she's very very funny, and her Merkin is world famous.

Show quote history

And she wrote a merkin shaped poem for the second book of UTDOD poems. There is no end to the woman's talents!

Crankywiddershins · 08/12/2023 07:37

Boiledbeetle · 08/12/2023 07:22

And she wrote a merkin shaped poem for the second book of UTDOD poems. There is no end to the woman's talents!

Show quote history

Oh stop it! Just go and ask her if she'll marry me!

ArthurbellaScott · 08/12/2023 07:39

Get in line, Cranky.

Crankywiddershins · 08/12/2023 07:56

ArthurbellaScott · 08/12/2023 07:39

Get in line, Cranky.

She'll be mine when she sees my merkin collection!

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