Helen Lewis blog of her WPUK speech

[Riva5784]

https://helenlewis.substack.com/p/the-gender-debate-from-the-gaslighting?utm_medium=email

She describes her experiences as a journalist writing on these issues and how her perspective changed.

"When I started writing about trans issues, I thought I was supporting a movement for human dignity—trans women wanted to be treated like women, to use female names and female pronouns to soothe their gender dysphoria. Of course they weren’t female, and some protections in law were written specifically for biological females, so those wouldn’t be included.

"But I quickly discovered that wasn’t the case: that some people found any discussion of vaginas and ovaries in relation to womanhood appalling, yet many of those same people had no problem identifying who was a woman when it came to singling out writers for abuse, threats and bullying."

I was at the event and an audience member asked HL a question about this. I can't remember the exact way she phrased it, but it was something like "when you describe some activists as genuinely transphobic and being people you think aren't helping, are you talking about me, who is someone who will not use preferred pronouns/believes people can't be born in the wrong body/worries about children/rejects gender and transgender as a concept". Apologies to the questioner if I got that wrong but I think that was the gist.

HL's reply was no, she's not talking about people like that woman (I think she said she thinks that's a reasonable position, if not hers) but (again I'm remembering, so might not be perfect) three things: 1, her position is a liberal one, ie if you want to identify as a woman go for it, not going to impinge on your 'right' to do so, but you don't get to impinge on others' rights either, rather than a view that transgenderism makes no sense/is an offensive ideology, 2, there is some stuff in the discourse that she thinks is cruel and genuinely transphobic, eg 'mocking how people look', and 3, doesn't like the movement taking a 'any platform' approach, ie aligning with US evangelicals, extreme right wing, etc. I think it came across quite strongly in the panel discussion that her working for an American publication means she worries more about general political polarisation and the dangers of the extreme right in the US.

(Apologies to either woman if I've misrepresented them, that's the best of what I recall)

I disagree with her on several things but I think the issue as a whole is better for her journalism on it. Was a good event, HL, Julie Bindle, and Susan Dalgety were especially good. The chair shut down audience discussion way too much imv though

Really interesting, thank you - as a Brit I know I can't fully understand the massive polarisation of American politics, so it's good to be reminded and makes total sense that it would be an issue.

Yes, thanks for that insight LaBaDee.

Helen Joyce is also willing to talk to a wider range of people/media outlets when it comes to interviews/panels and that is something that the socialist (academic) feminists don’t often do. Apart from Julie Bindel, I can’t think of WPUK members who would interact with conservative media or the IEA.

I actually can’t think of many of them who do media work to get the alternative message out there - what do they do apart from quarterly meetings? Are they lobbying Labour behind the scenes? I’m genuinely curious to know, not being snide.

However amongst the gentry GCs there are still those who would prioritise their Left wing identities (if they have them) over the rights of women and girls or think it's okay to platform folk like Hayton at the expense of transwidows, or who believe in "tru trans", or who think all of this can be sorted without repealing the GRA, or who don't understand safeguarding and its importance, or can't see a fetish when it's staring them in the face and it bothers me that these are the people who are seen as "our" representation (or who identify as such themselves) because I don't know if I trust that they won't make "compromises" on our behalf and I can't and won't compromise on this.

Yes, this.

It's a while now since I've seen KJK say or do something and thought, 'Fucksake Posie!' but she still has the ability to do that to me, and probably always will. Nevertheless, and even though we've never interacted, I have a sense that, if I ever got into trouble with TRAs, she would have my back.

I'm afraid I don't have the same confidence in the feminists who put her down. Possible exception there for Julie Bindel but I suspect the rest, if forced to choose, would put their left wing allegiances first and to hell with a nobody like me. Maybe I'm being unfair to them but it's based on observing how they behave.

I wonder what a MN that didn't make HL sad would look like?

So men can invade our toilets, changing rooms, refuges, rape counselling sessions, prisons, sports competitions, book prizes, etc etc and issue rape and death threats to those who protest, doxx them and stalk them and get them arrested or lose their jobs and careers but it’s sad that occasionally some women make slightly bitchy comments about said men’s appearances. Got it.

Just been back to have another look at the comments, see what's been added. Well done JoMarch 👋 if you're on here. You put it far better than I ever could.

JoMarch is/was also the username of one of the best contributors to Times comments on this issue. Be good to think she walks among us.

And yes, her comments were excellent. I hope Rowan and Helen reflect on them, although with no real expectation that it will happen.

https://twitter.com/helenlewis/status/1727314286630916114?

She's still getting cancelled, despite the capitulation.

That event could have been an excellent one dickbiscuit. What a pity.

Who cancelled it? The pub, the Skeptic Society, KJK😁 or someone else?

Did anyone else think...oh my, does she mean me?! 😁

I think along the lines of PP that her position on this is caught up with her view of herself as left wing, open, tolerant, progressive, kind.
All the Good Things basically.

She is a Good Person. having to grapple with the now obvious, even to her, dilemma here.

But she has to do this whiile maintaining her identity as left wing, open, tolerant, prgressive and kind.
Which basically means fudging the core of the issue, in order to maintain her sense of self as a Good Person.

Posie is not a person who cares about being seen as left, open, tolerant, kind, she is in intersted in truth, honesty and realism.

When you focus on truth and reality above tolerance and kindness you are to HL's tribe Not A Good Person.

People who are right wing are such people to HL.

She cannot be like them. She must find a way to diffrentiate herself on this issue. She will fudge to be kind. Posie won't.

I agree with PP that what HL is really doing is hiding behind those who are preapred to really grasp the truth and core of this issue despite this making them appear not toleratnt or kind or open. HL therefore gets the issue dealt with by others whilst maintining her self idenity as Good Person.

I personally think this is common on the left. declaring your compassion for sitautions whilst it has no imapct on you and you have no solutions, and harshly judging those who try to deal with the reality of having to make hard choices, is often present in left wing politics.

But then I'm right wing, so she probably does mean me.

@MalagaNights You nailed it 🙌 This is exactly what is going on.

I just saw the tweet about the cancelled event, and couldn’t help but find it ironic that Helen keeps aligning herself with these gender critical topics, before retreating again. She comes back to it and skirts around the issues (her piece about social contagion, now this event with Hannah Barnes… I’m sure there are numerous other examples, podcast appearances etc) but doesn’t quite have the courage or the conviction to jump in with both feet.

You’ve explained exactly why this is.

I agree with you. Lewis’s post and the current Genspect debacle reinforces for me that certain people feel it more important to be seen as kind rather than to tackle this issue practically.

I don’t know why people like HL have decided that compromise is always the best way to tackle any situation because, in this situation, the compromise of 'men can be legally but not really women' doesn’t work in the real world. Compromise means we get the ridiculous fudging of the GRA which has been steadily worsening safety for women and children since 2004. Compromise means we get men living their AGP everywhere with no concern for other people who have not consented to participating in someone’s erotic fantasy life. Compromise means we get children being convinced that they need to medicalise their healthy bodies because some of them might be really trans and if they detransition later, well it’s unfortunate but we must be kind. Compromise means we get the NHS and the prison system housing men with vulnerable women in hospital wards and prisons. Compromise means we get increasing numbers of men in women’s sport, winning competitions/prizes and injuring female competitors. Compromise, so far, has meant that men get what they want and women don’t.

Even the right wing of UK politics feels the need to compromise and be seen as kind on this issue, so compromise means the Government Response to the petition "Do not allow people to have acquired gender listed as sex on government ID' is basically, 'Soz, we’re gonna keep doing it - gotta be nice'.

I find her response very telling:

Uhm….that’s quite the response she gave. What about Hannah? Doesn’t she feature in this at all? 🙄

I don't have the self-importance to think that, personally.

I don't have the self-importance to think that, personally.
They said very self importantly.

As well as your self declared lack of self importance you also appear to lack understanding of light hearted self deprecation.

To help you: I don't actually think she was talking about me.

I was mocking myself and the brief moment of personal insult.

I'm very surprised this needs to be explained... maybe she had a point 😏

What do you expect from a bunch of bug eyed, paranoid, dimwitted and hateful radicals?

I'm sorry we're not as kind and lovely as Rowan.

What even actually is a 'posie tendency', anyone?

Maybe the 'posie tendency' is bluntly stating facts.

What even actually is a 'posie tendency', anyone?

A tendency to actually get stuff done?

What even actually is a 'posie tendency', anyone?

To not give a fuck about being part of the tribe?

To always put women first?

Tendency as in "political wing", as used in the "Militant tendency" Labour of yore, I think. Niche phrasing, but it makes immediate sense to English Labour members old enough to know who Michael Foot was.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_tendency