DD feeling bad after mis-gendering sub teacher.

[ImDuranDuran]

On the way home this afternoon, DD14 explained how she is 'in trouble' after addressing her sub teacher as 'Sir' during a lesson.

It's the first time the teacher has subbed for the class.

Apparently teacher snapped back "Actually it's 'Miss' to you!".

I asked DD if the teacher had made any announcement at the beginning of the lesson regarding pronoun preference and she's adamant that they did not.

I'm concerned that DD now thinks she's in trouble and to be honest I'm pissed off. It was a genuine mistake and she's 14. She would never intentionally try to embarrass a teacher.

If the teacher had pulled her aside afterwards and explained the situation I might be more understanding.

Should I just leave it?

YOU are the one who made the claim that you can’t force somebody to call you anything, because that’s disrespecting you. I’m agreeing with your argument 🫶🏻

You are just another poster who is doing everything possible but admit the truth- that you are transphobic.

She thought the teacher was male but they were actually a woman.

You are just making assumptions her @Night409

If believing that you can do what you want as long as it doesn't affect someone else makes me "transphobic" then so be it.

I would rather be "transphobic" than gaslight an entire generation.

Just FYI "transphobic" is becoming so over used that it is meaningless.

By your reply, you clearly think respect is a one way street. Personally, I believe it’s disrespectful of me to be forced to participate in a lie.
I have no qualms about calling a male by a name usually reserved for females - so Johnny can be Janet, because names are frequently unisex. the short version of my own name is unisex. But expecting me to use an opposite sex-based pronoun is neither transphobic or hateful. As an adult, I can easily avoid being put in a position whereby someone expects me to collude in their delusion. I would never purposefully set out to cause someone upset. However, expecting a child in a school to address you with an opposite sex-based pronoun is just plain wrong. Teachers are not in the job of making themselves feel better, they're in the business of educating children.

No more than claiming a teacher ‘looks like a man’ even though they’ve said they’re a woman and no other student called them sir.

Well if it's a man who's claiming to be a woman, that doesn't make them so. And if it's a masculine looking woman, I'd challenge anyone who said they can't work that out after a whole hour in class. Even Buck Angel has very telling female mannerisms and looks very topically masculine.

this thread is strange, so many people dismissing this child's experience and saying that children should be compelled to refer their teacher according to gender not sex, i.e. be compelled to lie.

Children are not props to the gender feelings of adults. They should not be forced to lie.

Trans teachers do exist. There was a FTM trans teacher at my DC's school a few years ago that I mentioned upthread. What is problematic is compelling children to use pronouns they are not comfortable with and telling them to 'be kind' when we know that gender ideology is sexist and can harm children.

Your kid made a mistake, the teacher corrected it so the whole class would know how to address them. What's the problem?

Personally, I think it is very ignorant of you to declare that any part of it is a “lie”.

I wonder if not so many years ago you would have had the same attitude about gay or lesbian couples? You’re right, teachers are in the job of educating children, teaching them about the world and preparing them to be good citizens. It’s not so long ago that schools would never have dared to teach about gay/lesbian couples and those couples could not adopt, and now we have children in schools who have two mums or two dads, and schools who have adapted to teach children about these things so that some kids make 2 mummy cards on mothers day, or 2 daddy cards on fathers day.

The world doesn’t look the same as it did 50 years ago, where racism and homophobia were common place, and schools teach now to reflect this. I wonder if you’d have dared make the same stance when schools started speaking about families with 2 mums or dads?

Bizarre is t it?

Child doesn't want a hug from a family member? Absolutely fine, bodily autonomy is vital, a child should be able to say 'no that makes me uncomfortable, even if it hurts the adult'

Child says 'erm no, you're a man, it makes me really uncomfortable to refer to you as a woman when I know you're a man' Oh that's terrible, why can't you be kind, what about their feelings, you should be ashamed, be kind , BE KIND.

Hmm

Personally, I think it is very ignorant of you to declare that any part of it is a “lie”.

I wonder if not so many years ago you would have had the same attitude about gay or lesbian couples?

Oh please, if you are worried about lesbians or gay couples perhaps think about the fact that trans ideology means that they are sexual racists because they don't accept the opposite sex in their dating pool. That's the ignorance. That's homophobia.

Ooh.someone mentioned racism and homophobia.

Who was expecting that?

I completely agree that your DD did nothing wrong at all but aside from any trans stuff, I'm surprised at how many people are saying how impossible it is to mis-sex someone.

There have definitely been times I've not known if someone is biologically a man or woman. Rarely but it's happened.

I wonder if this teacher isn't trans and they're just a very masculine looking woman?

Did nobody else in the class make the same mistake? When it happened did nobody express surprise that they all should have been using "miss"? Did other kids laugh at DD? Say anything?

The two possibilities are:

1.) If DD is positive that it was obviously a biological man and he just expects them to know to use "miss" without mentioning it then that teacher is bonkers.

2.) If it's a mannish looking woman then DD just got it wrong and went with what she thought. It happens and wasn't malicious.

Either way she's done nothing wrong and if any punishment appears I would be right in the school.

OPs daughter, if you're reading this, these are some of the things that pupils said to me when I was a teacher:

1.) You have hair on your lip like a moustache.
2.) Why is your belly so big? Is there a baby in there (no)
3.) Why can't we have the supply teacher back? They taught us things.
4.) Miss why is learning so boring this year?
5.) Miss your story is rubbish.

Etc etc.

I could write a list hundreds long. I'm sure all teachers could. Being a teacher with a thin skin isn't going to work well.

Whatever happened here, I can promise you that "sir" was nowhere near the worst thing that's been said to them in their career. Or this year. Or even perhaps this week. Their reaction was completely disproportionate and sounds like their issue instead of yours.

Your child made a mistake.

She thought the teacher was male but they were actually a woman.

No, that's not how she perceived it, I'm not sure why you think you know better? Men are not women.

@Mrsttcno1 interesting - so what's your opinion of those transwomen who think that lesbians who would prefer biological women are being transphobic because they won't include transwomen in their dating pool? Or gay men who refuse to date transmen because they actually only want to date biological men?

Because based on my knowledge and experience same sex attraction is what the LGB is all about. The homophobia arises when someone identifies into your sex, claims theyre the same sex as you (when we all know they're not) and that YOU are the problem for not accepting them.

Actually dear, Section 28 was implemented whilst I was training to be a teacher. I marched alongside my colleagues, both gay and straight, to protest this appalling law, and celebrated with them when it was repealed in 2003. I supported a good friend of mine and his husband when they fostered then adopted 2 children with special needs, and am Godmother to my lesbian sister’s child.
Conflating sexual orientation with gender identity ideology is more than a tad homophobic. When discussing gender identity ideology in school, I use the same line as I do when teaching about different religions - ‘some people believe… whilst others believe…’.

It’s not ‘ignorant’ to declare any part of ‘it’ is a lie. It’s absolutely the truth that no one in the history of human kind has ever managed to change sex. If anything, it’s ignorant in the truest definition of the world to declare humans CAN change sex.

No I’m not, I’m sticking to the facts.

Its OP and other posters who are jumping to the conclusion that this must be a biological man.

The DD said sir and the teacher corrected her to let her know that she is a miss.
No other student misgendered them and OP doesn’t know the name of the teacher.

Therefore we can assume that this is a biological woman and DD was mistaken.

There are also multiple posters who’ve been misgendered or known other teachers to be misgendered and it does happen.

The world doesn’t look the same as it did 50 years ago, where racism and homophobia were common place, and schools teach now to reflect this. I wonder if you’d have dared make the same stance when schools started speaking about families with 2 mums or dads?

This is a false analogy. Not only is the trans rights movement frequently jaw droppingly homophobic as pp have pointed out, but there is no claim being made with gay rights the contradicts my own understanding of the reality of biological sex, and gender as a social construct applied to each of the sexes. In short, I don't share the quasi-religious belief that everyone has an innate "gender" that can be different from sex, that males can or should be classified as women, and that this should always trump my understanding and knowledge of biological sex.

Therefore we can assume that this is a biological woman and DD was mistaken.

No we can't. OP's DD knows better than you do. You don't know anything about it.

The DD said sir and the teacher corrected her to let her know that she is a miss.
No other student misgendered them and OP doesn’t know the name of the teacher.

If OP’s DD was the first student to respond to the teacher and got snapped at, then of course no other student is going to make the same “mistake”.

Therefore we can assume that this is a biological woman and DD was mistaken.

Nope.

Your daughter hasn’t done anything wrong and the teacher is being utterly ridiculous snapping and implying DD is in trouble. Either
a) teacher is transgender but clearly looks like a biological male and never announced their pronouns (🙄) and therefore your daughter has done absolutely nothing wrong. she does NOT need to apologise for calling a biological man Sit, if said biological man has not clearly stated preferred pronouns. It’s his fault.
b) teacher is in fact female and DD has made a mistake - again has done nothing wrong and a simple correction from teacher was all that was needed, certainly not a telling off.

it’s a non issue but if teacher pulls her up tomorrow then I would be up that school like a rocket and nip it in the bud.

Your kid made a mistake, the teacher corrected it so the whole class would know how to address them. What's the problem?
The problem is that most decent teachers wouldn't snap at a child for something like that.
On the many occasions I've been called a Sir, Mum, Dad, Aunty, or even a totally different teacher's name, I didn't snap at the pupils. It was an irrelevant mistake and I'm there to teach, not dwell on being called "sir".

I'd have no need to 'correct' a student in a snappy way so the whole class can hear because it's not something that warrants that sort of response.

OP what was the teacher wearing/what hairstyle did they have?

Mrsttcno1

The world doesn’t look the same as it did 50 years ago, where racism and homophobia were common place, and schools teach now to reflect this. I wonder if you’d have dared make the same stance when schools started speaking about families with 2 mums or dads?

Strange that you should bring this up when the TRAs are homophobic in what they say and in many cases how they present.