What's going on with Genspect?

[MalagaNights]

I've seen Stella O'Malley tweet about being unfairly attacked.
I've seen a weird exchange from James Lindsay about feminists trying to take down Genspect.

But I can't work out what's happened or who is fighting with who.

Any ideas?

I've honestly never known a single organisation - charitable, political, academic or anything else - that publishes its accounts on its website. You're making up problems here that don't exist.

Purest garbage, based on a wilful misunderstanding of my posts as regards Genspect and their post attacking people who ask how they’re funded and who funds them.

UK parties’ accounts are on the Electoral Commission page, charities’ accounts are on the Charity Commission page, and universities publish their own. This is all to be expected. Other organisations (retail, trade etc) absolutely do publish their own accounts!

It is not too much to ask that instead of attacking people with questions, they’re open and transparent (as I’ve now said a number of times now and not sure I can bear repeating it all again).

This lack of transparency as well as a lack of reflection about welcoming an AGP is what = red flags. In particular, their lack of reflection is the most concerning thing. But some people refuse to see this. Fine. So long as they don’t work with children or vulnerable adults, or draft policy or provide advice to politicians, I guess.

I’m not going to type all this out again. I’m done with having to make the same point.

I think those criticising Genspect here in this corner of the internet might want to ask themselves, why didn't they set up a pioneering organisation, which brings people together to challenge WPATH?

It's easy to be critical on a thread on MN, not so easy to set up an international organisation which asks questions about WPATH, and gives sound advice to parents of gender-questioning children, and pushes back against the blanket mantra of "gender affirmative care."

Be brave, set up you own organisation. Risk your livelihood.

@2fallsfromSSA Did you ever receive a response to your open letter to Professor Arif Ahmed?

Why would replacing the organisation which has brought zero benefit to UK children, be A Good Thing?

WPATH should be fully exposed and shut down. Proponents of WPATH must be fully investigated. We don't need a WPATH v 2. That's got to be the last thing UK children need.

That's why.

I don't have the same kind of time that you do and I feel like you are definitely a plant okay I know you work for them

A plant? No. Just someone who can sense bullshit a mile off.

Genspect is not aiming to replace WPATH. they are as critical of WPATH as you are, as far as I can see. I think your antipathy to Ms O'Malley might be clouding your reason.

Of course, WPATH needs to be exposed and closed down. It's part of what Genspect is trying to do, as far as I can see. Have you listened to various podcasts from "Gender: A Wider Lens"? Their pulling apart of WPATH is fiery!

Yes as far as you can see. As far as I can see, no. I don't think they've given reasons to be trusted and I don't think either Genspect or WPATH benefit UK children. So there we are.

Whatever you think of Genspect the issues around safeguarding are a concern and should not be brushed aside, no matter how insignificant some may feel them to be.

As the late of this parish Langcleg would never tire of reminding us "No sacred castes!" and that includes those who are ostensibly on our "side".

When safeguarding issues are raised it's time to reflect, not jump to an immediate defence of the person/organisation being "attacked".

Every time this happens I just hear "But Sgt. Brown would never do something like that, he's a policeman!" or "Don't say that about Father David, he's a man of God!".

No sacred castes. Ever.

I think those criticising Genspect here in this corner of the internet might want to ask themselves, why didn't they set up a pioneering organisation, which brings people together to challenge WPATH?

Primarily its not an organisation to bring people together to challenge WPATH, its an organisation designed to influence how children and young people are cared for.

They may use WPATH as a 'how not to do it' model, but thats not their aim.

As an organisation that is promoting itself as experts in caring for children, i have every right to question their attitude to safeguarding. Its madness that someone would say otherwise on a patenting forum.

A plant working for who?

I don't know who you are talking to, but from my point of view I'd LOVE 'Ms O'Malley' to take down WPATH. I don't have antipathy I have concerns that they are going too fast and not taking stock.

My worry is that they are in danger of replicating the same format of being an international hodge podge of interested parties, and that they are not taking safeguarding seriously.

And that it isn't clear what they are trying to be.

You can't think that we haven't listened to A Wider Lens pretty much weekly for the last few years? Surely not. Otherwise we'd not be able to spot the flaws.

Pointing out that there is a blind spot isn't being mean, it is actually being kind.

I did consider quoting Lang yesterday. But thought it would be pointless.

@ResisterRex
Purest garbage, based on a wilful misunderstanding of my posts as regards Genspect and their post attacking people who ask how they’re funded and who funds them.

OK. It shouldn't take you long to point me to all the websites of organisations of a similar structure to Genspect, who have their accounts published on their website then.

UK parties’ accounts are on the Electoral Commission page...

That's right, on the Electoral Commission page. Not on their website.

charities’ accounts are on the Charity Commission page...

That's right, on the Charity Commission page, not on their website.

and universities publish their own.

Yep, though not on their websites, AFAIK (though I've never looked).

So exactly what part of "I've never seen an organisation - charitable, political, academic or otherwise - that publishes its accounts on its website" is "purest garbage"? Nothing you've said here has contradicted it.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "publish". Different organisational structures have different sets of laws they have to obey regarding accounting. Most involve submitting a set of accounts, usually audited and approved by some authority within the organisation, each year to a central body which makes them available to the public. Have you any evidence that Genspect have not done that, in accordance with the appropriate laws for their organisation type? (As far as I can tell they're a not-for-profit registered company, though I don't know exactly what that means in Irish law).

There are obvious reasons why most organisations don't go any further than that, or any further than they legally have to, with the "publishing" of their financial details. They're similar to the reasons why you don't publish your personal tax returns all over the web.

It is not too much to ask that instead of attacking people with questions, they’re open and transparent (as I’ve now said a number of times now and not sure I can bear repeating it all again).

As soon as you provide some evidence that they're NOT open and transparent, to a normal and legal degree similar to other companies operating under the same framework, this will become a question worth answering.

Excellent post Terry.

Some of this is about how they respond to queries/ criticism about appropriateness and understanding safeguarding. Defensiveness and denial is anti safeguarding.

More garbage.

Charities' and political parties' accounts are where they're meant to be. If you haven't found Uni accounts then you've not looked. I found Notts and Liverpool's very easily yesterday. Nothing is hidden. Nothing is behind a paywall. Nothing is a blog calling people names for asking questions.

You don't get this. I just hope you do not have a job which necessitates you getting it.

Genspect doesn’t work with children and so all the references to safeguarding on this thread are pretty ott

FML

@ResisterRex Does every organisation that challenges gender woo need to have full safeguarding policy? I see Genspect has a safeguarding policy, but I can't see these policies on other sites - maybe I'm missing them? Does Fair Cop need one? It doesn't seem to have one. Nor does Transgender Trend nor Sex Matters. Nor does Let Women Speak.

Weirdly enough, Safe Schools Alliance don't seem to have a publicly available safeguarding policy.

Like I said. Pointless.

And where are the accounts of a not-for-profit company "meant to be"? (presuming you mean according to the laws that govern how such accounts are treated).

Wherever it is, are Genspect's not there?

You know that if that's true, they're breaking the law and can be prosecuted, right?

Every thing on our website is about safeguarding, safeguarding is a culture not a policy and safeguarding runs through every single thing we do.

We do not have contact with children. We produce resources to help parents challenge poor safeguarding and we advocate for better understanding and implementation of safeguarding.

I think I may have explained this to you before.

And incidentally, your prattling on about "garbage" when all I've done is calmly demonstrate that your assertion was wrong (there's no law or established practice saying that accounts should be published on organisations' websites), and that you have provided no evidence for your criticism of Genspect (that their treatment of their accounts is any different from that of any other organisation of the same type) is incredibly childish. You're making yourself look foolish.

If you actually have anything to say that changes either of these points, then simply say it.