Pronouns an essential box on the application form for new work ID card.

[NoAuthorityAtAll]

Started a new job recently in a public sector organisation and was filling out the online form for my ID card. It had preferred pronouns as an essential box (ie you couldn’t progress to the next stage without putting something in it - I did try leaving it blank). I’d noticed that everybody had pronouns on their signature, but for it to be compulsory to declare them on one’s ID card seems inappropriate for a public sector (or any actually) organisation.

I put n/a and am now panicking that I’ll get questioned about it or labelled as transphobic (which would be really damaging in my new role). My job is person-facing and I have no problem whatsoever with respecting people’s pronouns and gender identity in the course of my work (nor with colleagues), but I don’t want to be pressured into including pronouns on my ID and communications.

Is this a common situation? If anyone else has experienced similar, was there any comeback/ were you pushed further on it? I’m really quite worried.

Really? I’d be terrified of ruining the ID card with a big black smudge!

I’m half expecting the card to arrive with my pronouns on there anyway, tbh.

Mr Smith
Ms Smith
like we’ve been doing since whenever.

pronouns my backside… it’s choosing and frankly quite embarrassing when someone announces their pronouns (especially when it’s blindingly obvious).

It's unfair to pressure individuals who aren't ready to come out as their preferred gender to declare themselves officially in a way that either forces the issue or sends them further back into the closet. And on a pedantic level, my pronouns are 'I' and 'me'.

Why would pronouns be extremely useful?

To tell us the sex of someone? Is this important to know in the context where the pronouns are asked about?

Or more likely, to tell us if a person is a believer in the new secular religion where pronouns are a signal of someone possessing an unfalsifiable belief in an abstract, inner gender identity not based on sex at all, but either aligning with it or not?

In the latter case 'she/her' will end up meaning someone who accepts sexist stereotypes about femininity for herself, given that 'they' means someone who doesn't accept those or the sexist stereotypes about masculinity. Once the nonbinary alternative exists, all pronouns become expressions of this, because nonbinary people are also either male or female, so pronouns no longer tell us anything about a person's sex.

There are several languages which only have one choice for the third person singular, and people who speak them seem to get by just fine without sexed or gendered pronouns.

I've been misgendered before. When I had a shaved head. Lots of people are ambiguous.
Plus, address people how they want to be addressed fgs. If Olivia wants to be known as Ollie - would you refuse? Of course not.

This

Lots of people are ambiguous.

They really aren't, and a shaved head reveals even more clues (I'll grant you 'lots of people are unobservant', though).

I missed this one…

I’m sure that would be faithfully transcribed by some twenty-something who didn’t get the reference. That would be so fabulous to have on your ID card.

I just want to thank everyone for the useful, reassuring and very funny responses!

As a teen in the 80s… of course I was incorrectly sexed (and called ‘son’). I laughed my socks off and no one died.

Young adults these days are so humourless and lack joy in their lives. Looking to be offended and cry oppression.

For what it's worth, I think it's inappropriate for an employer to require people to state their preferred pronouns. This should always be voluntary.

This

I told our HR person that I don’t like bullies and won’t have my language dictated in a social engineering experiment.

Sad thing is, the women who use the pronouns in their email footers, biogs etc aren’t ’believers’. not sure about the men (it hasn’t come up).

Why am I imagining someone being stopped by security because their pronouns don't match ?

Don’t match what though?

I’ve yet to meet a person in real life (or see online when I personally know them) where they have made their pronouns known and I haven’t thought ‘well, duh’.

Apart from a rather agitated they/them who was acting up infront of a group of bemused police officers outside Waterstones (I assume she’d seen a book they didn’t like the look of). Dressed like an anime character. Yes, had blue hair.

I know they pronouns because they had a badge. Like all people do of course.

This is what I tend to do in questionnaire that don’t let me leave something blank - full stop of hyphen.

I hope N will be referred to as ‘N’ when N is not in the room. After all, if they are going to ask A A pronouns then they need to use then for A.

But the pronouns in question are never for addressing people, are they? Have you ever addressed anyone as "she"? No. What about "him"? ("Do him fancy coming to the pub after work?" -- "Huh?") No.

Pronouns for addressing people aren't gendered in English. "You know that, don't you?" (I know, I know: you might want to say they're not sexed. But, well ... oh another time.)

The pronouns OP and others are talking about are for referring to people. Usually when they're not around. ("That @VivienneDelacroix, she didn't know that, did she? Silly cow! How could anyone be so ignorant?")

My email signature says my full name (Samantha obviously) as it’s just easier for people to know.
However if I send an email from a group mailbox, my sig doesn’t appear and I usually put Sam.

Ive often been referred to as he - doesn’t bother me on the slightest. What does it really matter who another company thinks has sent them an email?

Though I did once have a very old school type call me up and upon hearing my voice genuinely said ‘oh God you’re a woman’ 🤣

My sister’s name starts with a boys name but longer - so think something like Timone.

So many times she has been referred to as Tim One (equivalent). She thinks it’s hilarious.

I prefer to have initial and name for emails if I am dealing with suppliers or contractors.

I recently had a colleague (contractor) who cut and pasted the email footer from his predecessor - and didn’t remove the SHE/HER. I did a double take as he is a 6”+ hulking college American football player (he’s American) and quite gruff. His name is one letter off a female colleague (think Eso/Esa - so an unusual name here) so I was quite confused early on (everyone was home working and we only ever emailed) the he popped into the office to say hello. I genuinely wondered if he really thought he was ‘she’.

If I really needed to declare my sex (since gender is about as relevant as startling sign) I’d just put Ms Honey.

I’ve been a ‘Ms’ since I was a teenager and never felt the need to use Mrs (I kept my maiden name anyway).

it really is a nonsense. And a monumental waste of time and effort.

Also reminds me of when we were walking down the road (me and DH) and a person bounced by in a flowery shirt, long hair and we spotted that someone had dropped a bus pass on the pavement.

I picked it up and was saying ‘is that his - er her’s?’ Then trotted after him ‘excuse me! Excuse me, flowery shirt! Excuse me!!!’

Afterwards we laughed at ourselves for having no idea is this man was a he or a she.

DSs school drilled into them to call people ‘sir’ and ‘miss’. Poor kids - they are so worried about ‘literally genociding’ people with the wrong address…

@HoneyButterPopcorn

DSs school drilled into them to call people ‘sir’ and ‘miss’.

Because they are boys, presumably?

Why is it useful? Why would you need to know if someone is male or female? I also think you are being rather disingenuous by thinking this is the reason behind it. Because if that were so, why she/her? Why not male or female?

nope
if you're standing in front of someone you know what pronouns to use. If they are wearing a badge with handy pronouns you won't be screeched at for misgendering a bearded bloke as "he"

If you are only emailing them? meh. If you make a mistake once, and they correct you? not an actual issue.