Pronouns an essential box on the application form for new work ID card.

[NoAuthorityAtAll]

Started a new job recently in a public sector organisation and was filling out the online form for my ID card. It had preferred pronouns as an essential box (ie you couldn’t progress to the next stage without putting something in it - I did try leaving it blank). I’d noticed that everybody had pronouns on their signature, but for it to be compulsory to declare them on one’s ID card seems inappropriate for a public sector (or any actually) organisation.

I put n/a and am now panicking that I’ll get questioned about it or labelled as transphobic (which would be really damaging in my new role). My job is person-facing and I have no problem whatsoever with respecting people’s pronouns and gender identity in the course of my work (nor with colleagues), but I don’t want to be pressured into including pronouns on my ID and communications.

Is this a common situation? If anyone else has experienced similar, was there any comeback/ were you pushed further on it? I’m really quite worried.

How about just using an honorific or stating (male) or (female). What is all the he/him business about? Why use both objective and subjective?

Friend of mine put MYOB. The dimwitted HR people actually printed it 😂

I thought these days even people who are fully supportive of the right to choose one's pronouns were against forcing people to say them? It's essentially enforced outing.

As a native German speaker and thus used to the distinction between formal and informal modes of address, I'd have been tempted to use rhe old Denglish chestnut "you can say you to me."

I used to work in an international company, dealing with colleagues all over the world, and occasionally I would have NO idea what sex some person on a cc list was, for weeks sometimes, until I saw or heard them on a group call.
And I worked in a mainly male job and several times got called "man's name which has the first three letters of my name".

Nothing bad came of either situation...

TBH I would have been tempted to have a look at the JavaScript on that form to see what rules were being applied to that field. Then tried to put an unprintable character or something in there ...

Then those people can opt to share their pronouns if they wish.

If I had a name badge that said "Sam" it would be so obvious that I'm a female Sam. I don't need, or want, to share my pronouns

Have you never seen a person and not been sure if they were male or female? I know I certainly have.

If someone presents themselves sufficiently androgynous that you can't tell their sex and their name is also neutral, surely they are unlikely to be bothered if someone makes a mistake.

If someone wants a particular pronoun they can put one on their id card.

The issue is that some people don't want to put unnecessary pronouns on their id card.

I don't think it's that useful, because it doesn't matter.

I have an unusual name. It's an English name and in Britain people would know it's female, but for work I communicate regularly with people from around the world, in particular East Asia. I don't know whether the people I email regularly have any idea whether I'm male or female. But what difference does it make to me if they say to each other "X has emailed again, are you able to go back to him" when it should be "her".

I'll use someone's pronouns if they state them, I've no issue with it if they've decided it's something that's important to them. But I do think it doesn't actually matter in the context you describe.

‘I’ and ‘me’ are pronouns.
Just use those if it’s an obligatory field to complete.
Can’t see how anyone can complain about that!

Jeze/bel

Floo/sie
Trol/lop
sir/en. Or si/ren

Ooh I'm about to start a job where I very much suspect they are massively woke. I'll use one of these on my brand new id card if I get one.

But what difference does it make to me if they say to each other "X has emailed again, are you able to go back to him" when it should be "her".

I have a relatively unusual name and am regularly assumed to be male by non-UK people if we’ve only spoken by email. It really isn’t an issue and I don’t care for my situation being invoked as a reason for adding pronouns. Those that are bothered have been adding ‘Ms’ or ‘Miss’ or whatever to their email signatures for years anyway. Those of us who aren’t don’t want to be co-opted into this

(I am agreeing with the quoted part if it’s not clear!)

I might go with Twat/Badger…

I’m so torn on this.
On one hand I am GC and I have resisted adding pronouns to my email signature despite work pressure but I don’t think I really know why I have! I can’t work out what harm it really is.
I have read the arguments about women getting worse treatment when it is declared they are female but for someone with an exclusively female name how can I use that argument? And I have two colleagues for whom I was quite genuinely not at all sure what their sex was or how to refer to them in the third person. So I checked their email to find their pronouns!
Im so far saying when asked that I don’t personally mind if someone gets my pronouns wrong so won’t be adding but it’s hard to argue when told it supports people who do benefit from it.
Other than the point I have already raised can anyone clearly articulate the harms for me? Am genuinely feeling like it is A.Bad.Thing I just don’t really know why.

This explains it very well https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

its not just a courtesy. Compelling people to lie is not a harmless act

I don’t really align with much of what is written there though as I wouldn’t refuse to use someone’s pronouns in the workplace- I just wouldn’t. Nor would I for our patients (HCP role).

As the article says, that’s fine if you want to do that but people who don’t want to shouldn’t be compelled too. no one should be compelled to lie.

I just really can't understand why in a workplace scenario you would need to know someone's preferred pronouns or even their biological sex.
I emailed someone for months thinking they were a man, we had a video call recently and I saw she was in fact a woman. I noticed my mistake but it made literally no difference. In my emails I always used 'dear X' and had no cause to refer to her in the 3rd person.

This would be even less useful on an ID card.

The issue I have with compelling pronouns is stating your pronouns implies that you believe people can choose their sex. My sex is obvious, you can tell my sex just by looking at me. By putting pronouns after my name implies that I think I have a choice in the matter but I really don’t believe people can choose or change sex, but a pronoun listing implies that I do believe that.

..- - .... . .- ... ....-.- - -..- .-.. .- - .-. ... . - .... .-. . .- -.. ....

Exactly. Anyone who thinks that pronouns are useful has never worked in a male dominated industry, put up with direct and indirect discrimination for years and habitually signs documents and emails with just their initial and surname. And doesn't give a flying fuck if people think they're male.

How would putting she/her, effect you in any way. You are scared of being labelled transphobic for being transphobic. Have a word with yourself.

Have you never seen a person and not been sure if they were male or female? I know I certainly have.

No, I haven't. Having studied anatomy helps, but most people do it pretty instinctively anyway.

That's a beautifully surrealist kind of a thing to do.