Pronouns an essential box on the application form for new work ID card.

[NoAuthorityAtAll]

Started a new job recently in a public sector organisation and was filling out the online form for my ID card. It had preferred pronouns as an essential box (ie you couldn’t progress to the next stage without putting something in it - I did try leaving it blank). I’d noticed that everybody had pronouns on their signature, but for it to be compulsory to declare them on one’s ID card seems inappropriate for a public sector (or any actually) organisation.

I put n/a and am now panicking that I’ll get questioned about it or labelled as transphobic (which would be really damaging in my new role). My job is person-facing and I have no problem whatsoever with respecting people’s pronouns and gender identity in the course of my work (nor with colleagues), but I don’t want to be pressured into including pronouns on my ID and communications.

Is this a common situation? If anyone else has experienced similar, was there any comeback/ were you pushed further on it? I’m really quite worried.

Or .- …. ..-.

Morse is fun. 😀

I'd have put same as my sex

Pronoun declarations are not "incredibly" useful.

At best, they're of some utility in very occasional situations where you:

• only know someone's unisex/unfamiliar name
• need to refer to that person in the 3rd person
• are unable to avail yourself of the various easy ways we got round such a problem before pronoun declarations (such as looking them up, asking someone, asking them).

I have an uncommon and difficult to pronounce name. Sometimes people get it wrong or ask me before saying my name. I tell them how to say it and we move on, or maybe have some brief social chit chat about names. all good, no pronunciation statement in my signature and on my badge required.

n/a was a good shout IMO

I'd be tempted to put 'loada / bollocks ' but actually IRL would not dare.

I would rock the spinster and write “Miss”or wifey “Mrs”. I would make everyone call me Miss Ritasue like when I first started work or Mrs Bob to my friends mothers. I would flaunt my womanliness in a big fat display of my femininity.

And this is why it's incredibly useful that I don't declare mine. I have a unisex name and work in a male dominated industry. It can be quite useful to be thought of as male over email by people who don't know me.

I agree.

I don’t associate pronouns with gender identity as such, as I do with a multicultural workplace where a Sharon or Tracy can be male or female.

I absolutely hate all this woke, gender identity crap that workplaces are bringing in but putting my pronouns down in a workplace wouldn’t be an issue for me.

I wouldn’t put them down on my personal things like social media though because I am very obviously a woman and I don’t need to remind people because it’s irrelevant.

I love the morse code idea. Wish I’d thought of that at the time

I’ve been a bit surprised that everyone seems to have their pronouns on their email signature at this organisation . It was probably a 50/50 split at my last place. I don’t want to draw attention to myself for not doing so, but nor do I feel I should be pressured into declaring something that I feel is
a) not necessary or particularly relevant to my job
b) politically loaded and therefore making a declaration of allegiance to a certain ideology, and one I’d avoid discussion of at work as it’s so contentious.

I also feel that it doesn’t necessarily make people feel more comfortable seeing pronouns declared. I’m going to be dealing with a wide range of people (who will be in vulnerable situations when they need my services), and I see this as being as inappropriate as I would declaring any other belief system not shared by everyone - ie it could make people feel uncomfortable or alienated before we even start.

I really hope I don’t have to have that conversation at work though!!

I’m amazed you think that you'd need to see someone’s declared pronouns to know if they were male or female.

I do feel this a bit, tbh, but they haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory at all so far, so I guess not that surprising.

I wouldn’t put them down on my personal things like social media though because I am very obviously a woman and I don’t need to remind people because it’s irrelevant

So why would you need to state them in the workplace?

Hi n/a

Would hate to be faced with that, and in fact no online form should have a question where you are stopped from continuing, unless it includes the option n/a!

This seems to be your employer presuming or enforcing you to believe in a set of beliefs that I thought a recent court case said should not happen in employment.

Surely it should be like the census, where the question on gender is optional?

If you are worried, is there an HR department? Maybe you could raise it with them and say you are concerned how your "n/a" will be viewed. Explain you were surprised to be ask as it has been clarified in court that there are differing beliefs and an employer shouldn't force either group to conform to the other.

Or maybe wait and see if there is any reaction.

And if not you can wear your badge with "pride"!

Who knows you may start a trend.

Have you never seen a person and not been sure if they were male or female? I know I certainly have. I don't know why people have to get their kickers in such a twist over something that ultimately doesn't affect their day to day life but could make some other people's lives easier. Pronoun's aren't new. We've always used them.

Fairly certain on an ID card people would be using their eyes to determine which pronouns to use.. And generally we don't speak about people in their presence, so they're not really all that useful.

And via email, signalling that you're female can actually be detrimental - there have been studies done that show how differently people with unisex names were treated once they made their sex known. So no, I don't think it is incredibly useful actually.

So true, and well put.

..-. ..- -.-. -.- / - .... .. ... / ... .... .. -

I find that the more (unnecessary) information there is on a name badge the harder it is to identify and read the name.

I don't think pronouns are useful nor necessary. Those demanding you use a pronoun they steal or invent are not telling you to address them as whatever n order to not be disrespectful, but are demanding that you change your language and use their made up shite when not in their presence. When was the last time you referred to a person you're speaking TO as she, her, him or he? It's language that you use when talking about someone not to them. Therefore it's policing how you speak and forcing you to play pretend when you're not even with them.

And I would not have put my pronouns either OP. "Adult" "Human" "Female" sounds good though.

I find it interesting that there seems to be an assumption from the two pro pronoun posters that we might not be aware of multicultural names.

You are right to be worried but I think you have done the right thing by refusing to go along with something you obviously think is wrong. Sometimes it’s easier just to go along with something you think is wrong, or not tell the truth because a little lie is so much easier but do you want to be like that?

Sometimes we suffer for doing the right thing, I wish I had something better I could say 😔

I admire you for doing what you think is right over what is easy and convenient.

Hea/ then

I think this is EXACTLY what I would have done and hoped they would!

I mean, if you have eyes in your head tone able to read the name badge it's a fair shout you've be able to make a reasonable educated guess.....

but even if you still aren't sure, just se the persons name ?

Tosh

Thanks @Hansella567. I have no issue with using the preferred pronouns of colleagues and the people/service users I’ll be working with, I just really don’t feel comfortable with the compelled nature of this. It sends a loaded signal, imo, that I don’t feel is appropriate.