Pronouns an essential box on the application form for new work ID card.

[NoAuthorityAtAll]

Started a new job recently in a public sector organisation and was filling out the online form for my ID card. It had preferred pronouns as an essential box (ie you couldn’t progress to the next stage without putting something in it - I did try leaving it blank). I’d noticed that everybody had pronouns on their signature, but for it to be compulsory to declare them on one’s ID card seems inappropriate for a public sector (or any actually) organisation.

I put n/a and am now panicking that I’ll get questioned about it or labelled as transphobic (which would be really damaging in my new role). My job is person-facing and I have no problem whatsoever with respecting people’s pronouns and gender identity in the course of my work (nor with colleagues), but I don’t want to be pressured into including pronouns on my ID and communications.

Is this a common situation? If anyone else has experienced similar, was there any comeback/ were you pushed further on it? I’m really quite worried.

@Dancingonaslice these two colleagues whose sex you couldn't identify, was that because you had never met them in person or seen them on a video call, nor had an audio call with them? Just email or similar communication?

@FitAt50 how is it transphobic to not want to be compelled to state "preferred pronouns"? If they are preferred they surely aren't compulsory? And people have explained the way that being compelled to state "preferred pronouns" would affect them, even provided links to essays about it. Have you read those posts and the links?

I think people don’t want to declare their pronouns because they don’t believe sex a choice. How is believing that people can’t change sex the same as a phobia, fear or hatred of people that believe they can? That’s just people having different beliefs, surely?

I don’t mean this question in a bad or disingenuous way, I’m genuinely curious about your logic and reasoning that seems to equate a difference in belief with a phobia.

I have never been invited to the pronoun game but if I were then I can seeing it going something like this:

Other person: "Hi, I'm Celeste. My preferred pronouns are She/Her."

Me: "I prefer to use sex based pronouns."

Other person: "But I would prefer you to use the pronouns that I prefer."

Me: " Why should your preference trump my preference?"

What a fabulous, reasoned, intelligent reply. 😊

@KissTheRains and what a rude reply from you.

If you can only argue with profanity and nonsense, you are not arguing your case well at all.

Pronouns are a huge red flag that biological reality is being obfuscated by politically motivated groups whose least priority is that of the rights of girls and women.

For that reason I will defy and denounce this sinister ‘pronoun’ bollocks as long as I can. No one should have to declare anything but their name. No one can change sex.

You may have an obviously female name, but I think signposting (she/her) after it brings your sex to the forefront of the reader's mind. It's basically highlighting it. In a sexist world, that is only going to be detrimental to you.

What other protected characteristics from the Equality Act would you risk putting after your name in an email signature or on a badge? Age? Sexual orientation? Race? Religion?

There are a fair few names that telegraph the owner's probable age, race and/or religion, but that still isn't justification for employers to force employees to spell out their personal information.

I put “prefer not to say” (from a drop down menu) when I was registering for an ID card not long ago and my ID card ended up with

Firstname Surname
Prefer not to say

I felt more of a pillock than I would have felt with She/her written there. It was only for a weekend so I didn’t make a deal of it but it wouldn’t surprise me if you end up with exactly what the quoted poster suggests.

This is a helpful way to look at it thank you

Or something work-related?

Overworked/underpaid

Older/wiser

Arsehole, that's what a lot of people are saying that Blabla2023 post is and yet you tagged me to just reply with this sparklingly intellectual and well reasoned post hours after the fact and ignored everyone else suggesting Blabla2023s post is a load of old arseholes.

"I / me"

That's how I refer to myself

I absolutely love this! I may ask if I can change my answer…

This is actually the technically accurate answer, isn’t it!

I actually considered putting ‘Ms’, but it’s not a pronoun. I’d equally refuse to tick/declare Miss or Mrs on principle, and insist on Ms (although everyone just seems to assume it means divorced anyway 🙄).

As I’ve already explained, @FitAt50 …

I don’t feel tshat I should be pressured into declaring something that I feel is
a) not necessary or particularly relevant to my job
b) politically loaded and therefore making a declaration of allegiance to a certain ideology, and one I’d avoid discussion of at work as it’s so contentious.

I also feel that it doesn’t necessarily make people feel more comfortable seeing pronouns declared. I’m going to be dealing with a wide range of people (who will be in vulnerable situations when they need my services), and I see this as being as inappropriate as I would declaring any other belief system not shared by everyone - ie it could make people feel uncomfortable or alienated before we even start.

All the explainations about when pronouns can be useful, ie when we are outside of twhat is common in our own culture, are interesting but not relevant to OP (n/a to anyone asking) situation. A dilema that others are facing.

This is about an employer requiring everyone they employ to comply with the rules of what is (even with census inflation) a tiny % of the population. Why when I am at work would I have to play by the rules of a tyrannical minority. Grossly unfair and unequal. Added to which it also means having to go against me beliefs that sex is a biological reality. So the employer is actuallly asking me to be a hypocrite, and lie, because they have been intimidated, duped, into accepting that this tiny minority has the right to make everyone play by their rules.

What about eh/oh

you identify as a retro telly tubbie.

ToME/ ToYOU

Pro/Noun

I think it’s counterproductive to insist people declare their pronouns.

If you don’t want to put she/her, there’s always who/whom.

doesnt it depend on how it’s being used?
if it’s compulsory and doesn’t have a “prefer not to say” (which is weird and I’ve never heard of before) then I think you can ask why it’s necessary? GDPR means they must say why they collect data and how they intend to use and store it

otherwise surely just put “prefer not to say” if you don’t want to put your pronouns?

I really don’t get why this is such an issue, my colleague is called Kim and is a very tall, sporty lesbian with short hair. She puts her pronouns on her emails because she is very often mistaken for a man, and it saves embarrassment for her and clients! That seems super reasonable to me, and makes her work life easier

im a small woman with long hair, I don’t have the same problem but I put them on because I think it’s unfair if only the people who are confronted with gender stereotypes have to clarify this. Seems unfair to my butch colleagues

I do like eff orff. I'd be tempted to ask if you were related to the composer of Carmina Burana...

Or you could try tvoi / mat - your mum, in Russian.

A computers friend showed me this trick to get around form boxes that don't take blanks, often you can copy paste this "zero width" character in and it will look the same: https://unicode-explorer.com/c/200C