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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New Bill aims to stop males being housed in Irish women’s prisons

35 replies

fromorbit · 01/11/2023 09:02

Congratulations to The Countess organisation for working with pro-women people in the Dail and getting this bill together. It is a HUGE step forward.
https://thecountess.ie/historic-bill-drafted-by-laoise-de-brun-bl/

The Bill was drafted by Laoise de Brún BL and introduced to the Dáil by Peadar Tóibín TD and has been signed by Carol Nolan TD already
The Gender Recognition (Amendment) (Prisons) Bill 2023 was launched this week, along with our comprehensive Position Paper entitled Gender and Sex in Irish Prisons, which gives background, facts, and statistics supporting the bill. The paper fully explores and explains The Countess position on how the needs of all prisoners, especially women, can be met by the re-adoption of a policy of single-sex provision.
The system of gender self-identification introduced in the Gender Recognition Act 2015 has led to the housing of male prisoners within the women’s prison estate in Ireland. Concern for the vulnerable women housed with these men was a catalyst for the founding of The Countess in 2020. A Bill drafted by CEO and founder, Laoise De Brún BL, and introduced to the Dáil by Peadar Tóibín TD aims to rectify this situation and we are urging TDs to follow Deputy Carol Nolan’s lead and sign the Bill to allow speedy passage through the Dáil. If the Bill is signed by ten TDs, it is much more likely to be brought before the House.
De Brún said “No man should ever be housed in female prison regardless of how they identify. Men and women have been housed in separate prisons since the Prisons (Ireland) Act 1826. One of the many unintended consequences of the 2015 GRA has been a reversal of this policy of sex separation, which was brought about by reformers like Elizabeth Fry to protect female prisoners from male prisoners”.
De Brún says therefore that the only solution is to limit the scope of the effect of the Gender Recognition Certificate to protect women from being at risk from sharing prisons with men who identify as women. Denmark has a similar system of gender self-ID and yet has been able to protect female prisoners and house prisoners according to sex. The proposed Bill would give legal protections to the Irish Prison Service and allow prisons to be reverted to single sex-institutions.
There are currently two male prisoners housed in Limerick women’s prison, and this is causing harm the to both women who are incarcerated there, and to the female prison officers who have expressed concern about their own safely in light of threats made by one of these violent men.
De Brún further stated “The recent British policy change triggered by the public outcry that ensued when a male rapist was housed in a female prison in Scotland is predicated on their having no legal requirement to house trans-identified men in female prison. That is not the case in this jurisdiction where we have full, unfettered self-ID and a legal requirement to treat all men who acquire gender recognition certificates as though they were women. The only solution is to limit the scope of the Gender Recognition Certificate, which is what we have done in my drafting of this amendment. It behoves legislators to vote to close the gaps that are now obvious to all reasonable people and to amend the GRA to exclude prisons from the scope. This historic bill is the first to be introduced in any country with full gender self-ID, aiming to protect those most affected by this ill-thought out policy. It is the first time an activist organisation has been able to bring forward legislation limit the scope of full gender self ID and we at the Countess are very proud to be able to do so.”
De Brún went on to say “These women are the most vulnerable in society, those kept in the care and custody of the state, 95% of whom are non-violent. The Countess has long viewed the granting of a Gender Recognition Certificate as an access-all-area pass for predators, chancers, transgressors and cheats and nowhere are the consequences felt more viscerally than in prisons. In the Irish prison system, and in all prison systems beholden to gender self-ID, the data is the same and irrefutable. Either trans-identified male prisoners are more likely to be sex offenders than other male prisoners OR sexual predators are using this loophole to get sent to female prison. It must one of these two things. And this loophole must be closed”.
Members of the public can help with this campaign by emailing their local county councillors, TDs and Senators. Share on social media and make your voice heard.
The Proposed Bill is below, and The Countess Full Prisons Paper can be found at:
https://thecountess.ie/the-countess-sex-and-gender-in-irish-prisons-2023/

Those who want to put male criminals into women's jails can finally get a chance to explain in public why they think this appalling idea is a good one and go on record to defend it. Hopefully it will have repercussions far wider than Ireland if Irish gender crits can win this we can safeguard women prisoners worldwide.

Historic Bill Drafted by Laoise De Brún BL

Gender Recognition (Amendment) (Prisons) Bill 2023 New Bill aims to amend the GRA 2015 and stop males being housed in Irish women’s prisons The Bill was drafted by Laoise de Brún BL and introduced to…

https://thecountess.ie/historic-bill-drafted-by-laoise-de-brun-bl

OP posts:
RainWithSunnySpells · 01/11/2023 09:34

'Either trans-identified male prisoners are more likely to be sex offenders than other male prisoners OR sexual predators are using this loophole to get sent to female prison. It must one of these two things. And this loophole must be closed.'

Wow!

I hope the bill passes and as you say, hopefully other countries with self-id will follow.

TattyOne · 01/11/2023 09:36

Very good idea!

Nousernamesleftatall · 01/11/2023 10:05

Fingers crossed. Laoise de Brún is amazing.

ArthurbellaScott · 01/11/2023 10:08

Fantastic. All the best with it.

pronounsbundlebundle · 01/11/2023 10:11

Brilliant. I think everyone who argues for men in women's prisons should put their money where their mouth is and spend a night (or several) in the cell adjoining Barbie Kardashian's just to show how fine it is for them to foist this on unconsenting women (and women prison officers).

(If they're male themselves they can either self-ID or offer up a female family member to go in their place - if it's all fine and risk assessment blah de blah then why not?)

Biasquia · 01/11/2023 10:12

RainWithSunnySpells · 01/11/2023 09:34

'Either trans-identified male prisoners are more likely to be sex offenders than other male prisoners OR sexual predators are using this loophole to get sent to female prison. It must one of these two things. And this loophole must be closed.'

Wow!

I hope the bill passes and as you say, hopefully other countries with self-id will follow.

Wow this is fantastic. Very happy to see this issue coming up on this side of the water. In work we have, based on the highly sexualised nature of what he insists on wearing and heading into women’s changing rooms and loos, a fethisist breaking every boundary available, and the men are getting decidedly uncomfortable with his behaviour. I’m almost glad he is there because his behaviour is ruffling feathers in every direction. In rural parts particularly Ireland is still somewhat conservative but even some of my husband’s really aware social justice type Dublin friends have seen and discuss the flaws with the ideology. It is good to see the cracks widening.

Pixiedust1234 · 01/11/2023 10:13

The Countess has long viewed the granting of a Gender Recognition Certificate as an access-all-area pass for predators, chancers, transgressors and cheats and nowhere are the consequences felt more viscerally than in prisons.

Those are very strong words with zero ambiguity. Just wow. I wish them every success in this.

Froodwithatowel · 01/11/2023 10:15

Totally agree: the clarity of the wording is a joy.

catduckgoose · 01/11/2023 10:20

Fantastic news, let's hope this works.

This sentence stuck out to me:

One of the many unintended consequences of the 2015 GRA has been a reversal of this policy of sex separation, which was brought about by reformers like Elizabeth Fry to protect female prisoners from male prisoners.

Was it really an unintended consequence? I think it was deliberate, and this may be a polite lie.

SerpentEndBench · 01/11/2023 10:30

catduckgoose · 01/11/2023 10:20

Fantastic news, let's hope this works.

This sentence stuck out to me:

One of the many unintended consequences of the 2015 GRA has been a reversal of this policy of sex separation, which was brought about by reformers like Elizabeth Fry to protect female prisoners from male prisoners.

Was it really an unintended consequence? I think it was deliberate, and this may be a polite lie.

yy I think a polite lie, a golden bridge.

I do hope they succeed.

AncientBallerina · 01/11/2023 11:27

This is amazing- really hope to see that champagne socialist RBB trying to defend the current position.

Villagetoraiseachild · 01/11/2023 11:52

This is enormously heartwarming.
Brilliant words with deep compassion behind them.
Big Gratitude to The Countess.

Villagetoraiseachild · 01/11/2023 12:00

Let's hope that there are at least nine more TDs wise enough, caring enough and ovaries/balls enough to sign it forward.

Dublincailin · 01/11/2023 20:55

Can we get a list of all/any TD's which signed the bill?

StephanieSuperpowers · 02/11/2023 07:25

Is this being reported in the papers/on the radio etc?

Villagetoraiseachild · 02/11/2023 07:57

From my limited understanding, I think this is a freshly drafted bill.
I regularly read about things like this on this forum before they appear on mainstream media.

But everyone is welcome to contact their TD to ask them to support this bill, as well as contacting their local or national radio and/or journalists, asking them to report on it. I'm sure the Countess will have a media arm/strategy, but all public support will move things forward..
There may be a thread on this in Craicnet.......

.

Abhannmor · 02/11/2023 13:28

Well done the Countess. As for Richard Boyd Barrett , I expect he and his colleagues will just redouble their efforts to brand all opposition to gender extremism as some British plot against us. Patriotism is convenient sometimes even for people who identify as Socialist.

UtopiaPlanitia · 02/11/2023 14:03

This is class, well done Laoise!

I wonder if she’ll be able to get Niall Boylan to discuss it - she often gets to discuss issues of this nature on his show during phone-ins - I’d like to see this proposal getting wider public discussion and exposure. I know RTÉ are unlikely to ask her on to any of their programmes.

The Healy-Raes might co-sponsor this proposal 🤔

UtopiaPlanitia · 02/11/2023 14:12

Abhannmor · 02/11/2023 13:28

Well done the Countess. As for Richard Boyd Barrett , I expect he and his colleagues will just redouble their efforts to brand all opposition to gender extremism as some British plot against us. Patriotism is convenient sometimes even for people who identify as Socialist.

I’m really feckin tired of this trend of denouncing political/ideological opponents as West Brits - it’s cynical, lazy, and sectarian and it gets us nowhere on serious issues.

When applied to women like Laoise, it’s basically a continuation of the old catholic bishops’ attitude of condemning Irish women who fought for access to contraception and divorce as being loose women ‘tainted’ by a foreign culture. Basically it’s the old good girl/bad girl trope being recycled for the modern age and applied to GC women.

Abhannmor · 02/11/2023 14:59

Quite right @UtopiaPlanitia . They don't quite know how to deal with Iseult White. Her grandfather was a founder of Amnesty International. Her great grandfather was shot by the British after the Easter Rising. And she is GC. How inconsiderate of her !

UtopiaPlanitia · 02/11/2023 20:11

Abhannmor · 02/11/2023 14:59

Quite right @UtopiaPlanitia . They don't quite know how to deal with Iseult White. Her grandfather was a founder of Amnesty International. Her great grandfather was shot by the British after the Easter Rising. And she is GC. How inconsiderate of her !

Colm O’Gorman in particular has been extremely obnoxious to Iseult; he has quite the brass neck on him.

NitroNine · 02/11/2023 20:43

“West Brits” is just TRAs telling on themselves: they outsource their thinking so they assume everyone else must; & they’re so hate-riddled & obsessed with IDing as oppressed their idea of an insult is xenophobia wrapped in historic injustice.

UtopiaPlanitia · 02/11/2023 23:27

NitroNine · 02/11/2023 20:43

“West Brits” is just TRAs telling on themselves: they outsource their thinking so they assume everyone else must; & they’re so hate-riddled & obsessed with IDing as oppressed their idea of an insult is xenophobia wrapped in historic injustice.

You make a good point Nitro - they’re fine with glomming onto an ideology from another country (they can’t believably claim ancient Celtic gender-related mystic traditions) but, those who disagree with them must formulate their own strictly ethnically-Irish-sourced objections?!? Aye, right; like they wouldn’t pull the far-right card on anyone who tried. Nationalism seems to be fine if it’s Identitarians doing it but everyone else is a Nazi 🤷‍♀️🤯

NitroNine · 03/11/2023 11:59

Oh, but they’ll give it a good go Utopia - have you not heard the one about the early church burning all the Druids’ scrolls? 🤦‍♀️

UtopiaPlanitia · 03/11/2023 13:08

NitroNine · 03/11/2023 11:59

Oh, but they’ll give it a good go Utopia - have you not heard the one about the early church burning all the Druids’ scrolls? 🤦‍♀️

Soup Cooking GIF by PLAYMOBIL

Nitro, now I’m imagining an Asterix adventure to fit the situation: Asterix and the Search for the Third Gender, in which the druid Getafix sends our hero Asterix and his best pal Obelix to Hibernia to borrow a mystical scroll from the Hibernian druids, and when the intrepid Gauls reach Hibernia it’s just full of people with blue hair having orgies and discussing postmodernism 😂

Well….my weird sense of humour makes me laugh at any rate 😬😬